Marty Leeds | Pizzagate, Symbolism, & Secret Societies

Show Notes


Join The Higherside Chats podcast, with host Greg Carlwood as he and returning guest, Marty Leeds, talk Pizzagate, symbolism and secret societies.

While we may differ on our perspective of the reality that surrounds us, there is one thing we know for certain: there is a sophisticated code baked right in. Today’s guest, Marty Leeds helps us to decipher what this intricate web of encoded message may mean in our grand reality and understanding of self.
2:29 Marty begins by discussing the crazy landscape we are navigating, otherwise known as current events. While we find ourselves in the heart of the historic Pizzagate investigation, researchers have caught themselves in the cross hairs of the “fake news” agenda. Marty reveals his reasons for leaving prominent social media sites, such as Facebook, and how the witch hunt has affected researchers far and wide.
7:20 Greg and Marty dive deeper into the Pizzagate pool, by discussing the some of the more disturbing aspects discovered. As Marty explains, the lewd and lascivious online behavior of many people connected to this scandal should be enough to open a criminal investigation. Couple this with the crackdown on Pizzagate researchers, the obvious subculture built around this abuse, and the government’s involvement through programs such as Project Monarch, the effects are frightening.
17:03 Marty addresses the rumors of a possible Pizzagate investigation under the new Trump administration. He also examines the corrupted political power structure put into place by Washington elites, and whether Trump can deliver on is promise to “drain the swamp” or if instead, he can be implicated in some dark conspiracies himself.
24:42 With a background in the occult and symbolism, Marty is the ideal guest to divulge the details and patterns in Pizzagate. Marty also analyzes the infamous John Podesta photo, and explains the importance behind the fish and number fourteen on his palms.
29:20 Segueing from Pizzagate to his latest book, “Pi & The English Alphabet: Vol. 3”, Greg discusses the foundation of Marty’s work: Gematria and the English alphabet. He also describes it’s significance to the Podesta photo, the number 322 and the Skull & Bones logo.
37:19 Continuing with their conversation about the Skull & Bones logo, Marty details the importance of the use of the femur bone, it’s connection to astro-theology and Sagittarius. Marty also reveals the Masonic connection to the apron, the historic use of it throughout several cultures and it’s symbolism.
46:20 From the paradigm of divine creation seen in examples such as the Fibonacci code and the Golden Ratio, to the nefarious corruption and archon control we actively attempt to subvert, the horizon seems tough to navigate. Marty walks through his take on the the extreme contrasts peppered throughout our reality.
Subscribe to the plus show to hear the extended episode, including:
– the Preamble to the Constitution and the deep seeded symbolism and numerology within it
– cosmological constants, and mathematics as the language of The Creator
– the encoding of Pi to display universal truths about the nature of being
– the septinary system of the English language
– the value and use of mathematics in understanding the extreme balance of good and evil in nature
– the perversion of powerful esoteric knowledge and symbols by the elite
– the fingerprints of Masonry in architecture of our universe, and how this relates to the Flat Earth Theory
– the Bible as a mathematical document
– the number 432 being key to cosmological constants

A few valuable resources from the episode:

Truthstream Media’s video “This is How They Are Shutting Down the Alternative Media Online”:

New York Times’ article addressing their lack of journalistic integrity post-election:

Marty’s interview with Tracy Tyman:

Poynter’s International Fact Checking:

Marty’s “De-occulting of John Podesta” video:
Frank C. Higgins’ book “Apron: It’s Traditions, History and Secret Significances” :
Timothy Hogan’s book “Revelation of the Holy Grail”:
Marty’s video about the Preamble to the Constitution:
Want more Marty Leeds? Check out his website: and his Youtube channel:
Want to hear more THC? Become a plus member and gain access to the additional hour as well as the THC forums! If you want to stay connected to The Higherside Chats, like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter, check out our YouTube channel, find us on Reddit, or review us on iTunes. Thanks for the support, and until next time.

PLUS Content

54 Responses

  1. Oh shit. Thought I was going to bed early, but not tonight! Going deep with Marty and Greg!

    I’ve bought the Pi and English gematria app, have it on my phone and run words and phrases through it from time to time. Stiill triangulating my conclusions but it’s in the toolbox. Can’t wait for this one.

  2. Always happy when Marty is a guest. The Pizzagate info can beat on your soul; so rest up & get healthy to fight the good fight again Mr. Leeds. The math info & Gematria is so interesting & envelops our everything. I appreciate new info to help me rethink &reform opinions. Greg, another great show; this month has been a winner all around.

  3. A lot of conviction in Matty today, i feel bad for anyone exposing themselves to that kind of material, its not going to have positive effects on a person so my hat goes of to you for doing that work. Great work

  4. Fantastic show, thank you both!
    One small comment regarding Greg’s admittance of being a media junky:
    TV shows like naked and afraid are produced. It’s not a real measure of symbiotic living with nature. Also human is a social entity by definition. By being together, with love and open heart, we can overcome and enjoy almost anything.

  5. I much liked that discussion just after minute 46 where it ranged from Marty’s take on centering, to musings about crossing death’s portal. I have for the most part left much behind in the way of any body identification, and with that, fear of (belief in) death; so what would be the point in leaving the reality of the present to hang out in projections of a future that really have only been made up in imagination? So, here is a body, typing on a computer keyboard, but you know, it’s what’s happening now, in the present. Musings are fine, if kept in perspective.

    The part of that six or seven minutes that I really appreciated is the coming to center, whether we call it the forth chakra or the heart, it is the center of presence in my own seeing. The presence is the real, and when I go to past or future musings, I take the energy of presence to power the projections. Something in me sees value, in a caring and compassionate sense, that a being in a body might engage something like Pizzagate, out of an empathy for other beings, taken into it as both the victims and the perps. At the same time, the living of this life is thoroughly loved, despite also having bitten that apple from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    I really liked this first meeting with Marty, as the being I sensed in him, flat Earther, or whatever. I would invite him to take it to the next step and prove the non-existence of spheres altogether. If it is a plane, I have been physically high enough to see at the very least, it’s a bent plane. I have both sailed and flown half way around something that sure seems generally spherical.

    Right at time: 1:23:45: Greg says, “That‘s a church I’d go to!”

    Great show, Greg and Marty. See y’allz in church (even if I will be sober).



    1. That is the interesting thing for me. So much of what he said resonated or I *knew* was true. And then Flat Earth. My path has always been listen/read/observe/contemplate, but then *know* by doing. And having done the sailing. celestial nav thing, and the satellite dish installer, I *know* globe (oblate spheroid) Earth. When I found the whole FE thing, I looked, not afraid, I mean so much else was bullshit, I questioned it all. And learned and surmised much that seem to be true in so much as it matches personal observation. The problem with FE and me is it a bunch of people peeing on my leg and telling me its raining. The math of celestial navigation lets one assume a flat earth and a domed firmament. But that does not make it real. Ships hull down, radar horizons, geosync sats I have aimed at and tracked at various latitudes, all argue against slick videos that make me suspect either there are honest alternative folks who have not first hand observed enough to raise the BS flag on FE or they are putting out people who espouse one aspect of the truth, like pizzagate or ether or cabal and poison it with their FE. His primer video is great and covers everything. But then inoculates (pun intended) the guilty from discovery of what they are doing because it is a FE proponent fronting it. FE proponent so and so brought up all this good, legit stuff, but nobody needs to do anything about it because, jeez, flat earth. Really ironic that that would be the attitude of religious and doctrinaire atheists because of programming, but there you go.

      1. “Ships hull down”? 🙂
        Check out this video – “Analyzed: How Boats Vanish Over The Horizon”
        This also is a must watch – “Flat Earth and Atmospheric Magnification (short version)”
        “Experts in optics and weather have concluded that “the atmosphere really does act like a lens.” What type of lens? A convex lens. What does a convex lens do? It magnifies. Is this the reason why the lower portion of ships and buildings can’t be seen or is it do to the alleged curvature of the Earth?”


        1. If FE turned out to be true, I’d go, “hmm, well I got that wrong,” and adjust my outlook accordingly. The thing is, I have more than an average amount of first hand knowledge and a mind that takes nothing for granted, and every way I look on it based on my experience and not a you tube video, many of which always avoid the tough questions, like sky rotation, I still get globe. What is going on above the atmosphere, I don’t know or have first hand experience with yet. Maybe the sun doesn’t emit visible light and the atmosphere downconverts it. I think Dollard said something like that. Or maybe this is just an energetic construct and FE or GE is perception dependant. One other thing that gets me re many FEers is the militancy of some. My intuition is it is a psyop and there are some well meaning researchers caught in it.

          1. We were told the earth is spheroid rock spinning at ridiculous rates of speed on a tilted axis while wobbling, and then traveling even faster around the sun in a galaxy moving even faster through the “vacuum” of “space” and that it’s all a happy coincidence and we were told this by known liars and deceivers who’s only way to keep power is to lie and deceive and convince the population we are stupid insignificant eaters breeders and consumers. None of us have ever circumnavigated the poles, in fact no one has that can be proven, so why would anyone just clutch to such a highly improbable belief because it was the first thing we were all indoctrinated with. Belief is the enemy of knowing. Open mind, open heart. Love respect and integrity. Everything else will fall into place, and no it’s not gravity, it’s just heavier than what it’s falling through. Not that complicated.

      2. The FE is not accurate plain and simple. There is just way to much empirical evidence of a spherical earth. The fact that this keeps coming up on THC is causing me some concern. That does not mean that we are not trapped in a simulacrum
        and unable to move out of low Earth orbit.

        1. Empirical evidence? From where? NASA? Understand perspective and the human eye and you understand the false construct of a horizon caused by curvature. And that’s actually backed by truly empirical data not taken from professional liars.

  6. Great show. Thanks Marty. PHI rules OK.

    Regarding the constitution:

    Please note that a ‘lien’ is a french word. It means link, or tie (in this case, of the legal sense).
    So, as Kennedy said, an ‘inalienable’ right is just that…
    …not as-in ‘ALIENable’ , but ‘a-LIEN-able’

    … and not pronounced like the king of the jungle 😉

  7. Interesting I hear this today, just yesterday on local news they mention a change to the charges of the gun man that went to Comet Pizza and that it was because of fake news online and then remind everyone not to talk about it on social media. Wow… just wow

  8. Awesome show. I love his take on Christianity, and I definitely feel the same way. It’s a very gnostic take on Christianity over all. Not the stripped down version that churches give us

  9. There’s a remarkable essay by Joseph Campbell about 432 called “Then Number of the Goddess,” included in the collection called “The Mythic Dimension.” I highly recommend it. It illustrates how the experience of these short, brutal, empty lives might connect to the eternal, personally and in our aggregate.

    Campbell’s view is largely influenced by C.G. Jung. This is important because it positions all questions of good or bad in the context of the individual’s psychic and psychological health. (Ethics is about Good and Bad; morality is what other people should do. Leave morality to the fascists.) I think this is what Marty was getting at. A wise person seeks after the occult so as to understand themselves and the spirit of the gestalt with which we are one.

    The Hero’s Journey is the struggle with the self. The aspiration for the initiate is to recon with one’s psychic inheritance, illustrated by archetypal symbols and principles in dream, in memory, in every emerging encounter, and every projection – with the hope of mastering one’s mind enough, to see the divine among us clearly enough that our lives can resonate with the order of nature. This is what Marty calls God, which I tolerantly begrudge. Even bad people try to harness God’s power to their own ends. It’s best to get out of their way (while standing witness to their crimes) and seek one’s own way to the divine.

    Relative to fearful visions of invisible forces personified by Archons waiting for our mined souls in some afterlife, I think these should be put out of your head. They represent misunderstanding and subterfuge. Think of Archons as spirits of the true, eternal cycles, not much different in essence than spirits of the wilderness, but removed by a few degrees in the hierarchy. There are 365 of them for a reason. They are said to emerge not from the Creator God, but from the God above him, who contains both Existence AND Nothingness. For a consideration of what Archons symbolize, have a look at the wikipedia survey of Abraxas. For a poetic mediation on it, spend some time with Jung’s Seven Sermons to the Dead, which concluded his Red Book.

    Important Caveat: If one cannot consider the occult with a poetic/symbolic/archetypal state of mind, it’s best not to bother. If you’re looking for some certainty of material reality in the afterlife, your living life is certain to be a living hell… and you are likely to make it that way for others, too.

    I enjoyed Marty’s comment about using the hidden realm for making art. I agree. It enriches the maker, the audience, and it is one realm in our lives that gives us access to resonate with the divine order. (The Bill of Rights, for instance, comes from our nation’s founders’ studies of the natural order, whatever earthly crimes of theirs one wishes to otherwise focus on. If they did not think of this order that Marty speaks of we would only have their indiscretions and the wasteland resultant from their reach for power, and not these glorious, if threatened, protections on our collective will.) I would add that it is also rewarding to use it for appreciating art, experiencing it in the moment AND analyzing it in reflection. Great revelations and catharsis can come from it, but they will be personal, generally.

    Be judgmental or critical of the content of the messages you receive, and when the messages breath of life and love, let the grace of existence wash over you as you become more fully yourself. (Cannabis, among other things, does help.) Then, when kindred spirits reveal themselves to you, share that with them and glory before you fall asleep again.


  10. Greg,
    Another great episode, thank you! With all those trolls and haters I feel I must say again and again what an awesome host you are! One example of that is you`re not a flat earther, but you bring it up to enrich the conversation, to point out things.. don`t know how to describe more correctly. I just loved to listen to you both, I loved how juicy the ‘FUCK’ sounded from Marty`s mouth 😀 . Your ending speach was great again – about Marty and Crrow agreeing on all that stuff, so great for you to point that out, real food for thought to many.
    Thank you for all the topics and guests. I really appriciate what you`re doing even when I`m not so happy about some episodes and guests, cuz “take what`s good, leave the bad”. Peace!

    1. haha I appreciate it. I need to stop talking about the hate, cause it’s a small sliver compared to the positive stuff. This is just something that happens to content creators.

  11. Didn’t feel like this got enough into the actual connections between the symbolism and Pizzagate, but maybe I was just distracted. Still a solid episode, lots of new info, but it seemed like Pizzagate was more of an aside or context than the actual meat of the episode. Perhaps its simply a stylistic difference. Marty Leeds was my first Higherside Chat ever, and I’m still a big fan. keep it up guys.

  12. omg. omg…

    i just watched SPLIT, it is literally about eating kids to gain magical powers… Holy shit.!!!!!!!!!!!! it clicked when I was listening to marty leeds and Tracy Twaman. about movies are a good place to find this. someone watch it!!! Holy shit…… movies123, has a good cam version!

  13. I just hope he stops calling people assholes and shitheads because he will lose a lot of candidates for influence. Otherwise I enjoy all of it and the fight for the Ultimate of Truth, rather than so many nit-picking non-issues like Drump not opening the car door for his wife lol. But more than ever I’ve come to the sense that nothing will change for the better until Palestine is publicly freed from bondage. Though people seem to care more about identity politwix than actual human life around the world…


    1. And boycott Amazon too, with Jeff Bezos’ profits buying The Washington Post to tell us what is fake news, while printing it. That money came straight from exploited workers and markets.

  14. Thanks to Greg and Marty for this refreshing episode. The first part of the show, focusing mostly on Pizzagate was spot-on. I’ve had to take some time off following it because like you mention, it’s been too depressing, especially after reading Cathy O Brien’s story (Trance-Formation).
    We’re all in this limbo and I can only spread some positive energy in this swamp.
    the second part, more on the esoteric knowledge and metaphysics of these secret groups and how they’ve exploited it for the bad was refreshing.
    Keep up the great shows Greg, I love the healing episode as well. I think Antarctica is definitely going to be big this year. Benjamin Fulford and Corey Goode are two firsthand leads.

    1. Agreed! And I love anyone spreading positive energy.
      I read TRANCE: Formation of America about a year ago and have been stewing with that info ever since. I’ve tried to get friends and family to read it as well. No luck. There is such incredible trauma and horror in her story – then ALSO having to participate with your daughter. I. can’t. even. And Cathy, and her daughter, were subjected from birth to these atrocities. I urge everyone who can handle hearing about Pizzagate to dive into TRANCE, and then – can we all discuss? For me, it’s simply a matter of trying to bring this into the light so we can shut it all down.

  15. I had to jump the Facebook train too about two years ago. But pizza gate is a real look into the elite kiddie touchers. It’s fucking disgusting but true. I love the pizza gate episode. Do 10 more in a row on pizza gate so the pedophile defenders will wake up or just leave. Keep it up

  16. Another informative passionate listen from you both here , this is an incredibly sad and worryingly disturbing subject and has been the only time I haven’t been able to bring myself to self research ( im talking pizza gate here )so I just wanted to relay my thanks for informing and being professional and bringing this to my attention in a respectful way. Huge respect

  17. Liked how you brought up the idea of this realm being an archon construct – Leedsy kind of surprisedeal by this concept but I appreciate his positive response. Man, I’m starting feel the same way re: nature. I enjoy the outdoors but wonder if the beauty of nature is just a deceptively beautiful part of this construct/simulation that, yeah, is actually pretty dangerous. Would recommend Miguel Conner as a guest to address this issue – don’t think you’ve talked to him.

    1. There is only 1 thing and nothing. We are the Archons and their prisoners. I have nothing but love for wild nature. What a beautiful sphere we have. If we realize this truth, then we have no need for horrible taboo violations to awaken magical consciousness.

  18. Another fantastic episode. Marty is always very interesting, and I’m glad you brought up PizzaGate again.

    And just ignore any hater comments man, the vast majority of us love your show. It’s why we subscribed. Great work as always.

  19. Awesome Greg
    You Are No. 1 @ what you do.

    Marty, I appreciate your work and am thankful that you do pods and interviews. The interview with George Webb…. top notch. But, for me to buy your book would be like eating soup with a fork. HoweVeaaa,….. I am buying Michael Hastings books “Panic” and “The Operators” Thank you, for that.

    All the best Always…

    1. No word is what it pretends to symbolize. The Truth will ever withdraw from our efforts to contain or explain it. Words become false idols.

      Someone I much respect and love says this: “The Truth is simple. The seeker of Truth is complex.”

      We won’t get It in complexity. We simply have to be It.


  20. Great job as always. Fascinating interview.
    I find FE conversation intriguing but can’t help but think there’s a big joke being played. Not to say I believe everything we’ve been told is as it is. Not at all. But……feeling wary.

  21. As much as I love you two to death Im not sure why people cant wrap their heads around the issue of the nature of our existence. Heres the feeling I get. When you say that the demiurge (lucifer, satan, the adversary) and the archons (demons, djin, disembodied spirits, etc) are possibly influencing or even running the show in this material world or matrix or whatever you want to call it. Hes just like “its the dichotomy of good and evil” I dont have much else to say about that but I dont agree yada yada. Isnt it possible that in the beginning when the watchers or fallen angels were banished here and had their beauty stripped leaving them ugly that, after whatever “war” they had in the heavens, that Lucifer was given a certain type of reign over this domain. Obviously we have free will but their fingerprints are on everything even ideologies and pseudosciences and doctrines. I would say its easy to see that Lucifer felt he could do it better and the benevolent god said sure give it a shot. Now we are in the middle of that struggle or that story and I would argue that the benevolent god coming here in human form and suffering and giving us a so called way out and the antichrist were supposed to see kind of being that same thing for the devil would be proof of their struggle going on in this reality. I would think that this reality is a mirror image or counterfit version of the one we were meant to be in aka the garden and that originally things may have been more ethereal and maybe the food chain and the need for creatures to consume other creatures was introduced by Lucifer in his counterfit reality or prison planet or matrix or whatever you call it. You see yogis and shamans able to overcome that need to consume going way longer than we believe anyone should be able to live without water and food all the time. When you look at the relationship its possible for us to have with even the most unlikely animals/predators after them being rescued at a young age etc. I would argue that that need to consume may not have always been the intention. Like that Russian guy who wrote that “fictional” book (Cant remember his name this is off the cuff I dont have time to look it up) you had on talking about the woman in the wilderness and how the animals were taking care of them it makes me think that after thousands and thousands of years of us having to consume each other for sustenance those instincts of fear has been passed down hereditarily as survival instinct. Isnt that why they dubbed it the monarch program because they realized that memories could be passed to offspring. In other words Im saying as much as I hate organized religion and its twisted portrayal I think we are in that very struggle that is eluded to in the biblical texts and texts that arent in the approved cannon etc, between the good and evil forces. Not saying I know better than anyone else but I feel like the big picture is right there for us all to grasp. They say the watchers taught us all of these arts that became detrimental to us causing suffering etc. but in this “big show” imagine how boring life would be without the underdog stories and the passion and the betrayals and all of the experiences. Yes I hate evil and the things its caused (more than you can imagine) but without any of that would we truly be able to appreciate what a thousand years of peace or a “heaven like” existence or what the lack of evil would even be like. Or would some of us be naive such as Lucifer and think that we could do it better and even become little mini adversaries. Its all needed in the grand scheme of experience and thats why the man upstairs tells us not to exact vengeance upon evil do-ers no matter how right that would seem. Maybe Im wrong but I think were arguing over semantics a lot of the time when science and spirituality and good and evil are so intertwined that were all on the right track whether our current belief system and biases will allow us to see it or not.

    1. And as far as why does the benevolent god allow suffering its so plain to see that it was a necessary part of this struggle and the only way that benevolence could win out in the end. Keep doing what your doing brother. Without your show I would never have been able to see the big picture.

    2. Please, dude, paragraph breaks for my eyeballs (talk about good and evil!).

      The Big Picture, eh? I would simply submit that when the non-dual actuality of everything is the perspective, boredom doesn’t even come in to it. One might see otherness and againstness as the fallout of illusion. One certainly would not have a need for them if at peace in being present. What is it those yogis, yoginis, and shamans see that we could not, given we could but entertain similar possibilities which they obviously have?

      Maybe it’s not what we have to learn, but what we have to see about what it is which we have learned. All story is but story, no matter how hifalutin. Our being is prior to all the stories, has always been the power of our perception. The stories become as colored glasses through which we see and then, try to state some version of a case about existence. Pretty fucking funny, if you ask me.

      But that’s what we’re all taught to do, and then we wonder which story is the one of the Big Picture, in which a story of anything, from every possible perspective can be found. We take our picks of a story and some will go to war for these.

      Has there been fallen angels? Fuck if I know. It seems no story gives me the best rest. Just something to consider,eh?


  22. I’m having problems with the media player when pausing a show to make a cup of tea etc. When returning with my hot beverage the player freezes, I am then unable to fast forward to the point I got stuck at. It grates after a while especially if you are an hour or so into a poddy.

    ’tis a shame as the first hour was a great listen

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