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Wal Thornhill | The Scientific Case For The Electric Universe

Show Notes

Today on The Higherside Chats, I’m speaking to electric universe paradigm expert, Wal Thornhill. Wal is the co-founder of the Thunderbolts Project, as well as co-author of both The Electric Universe and Thunderbolts of the Gods. If you are like most of us, you have been taught definite ideas about the Big Bang Theory, how gravity affects the planets’ spiral rotation, some theories on why the dinosaurs might have gone extinct, how the Ice Ages have happened, and many other scientific theories – as if they were set in stone. They aren’t. So, in today’s episode, we’ll explore the possibility of the electric universe as an alternative paradigm, which is namely the belief that electricity, as opposed to gravity, is the primary operator in our universe.

Wal Thornhill got his degree in physics from Melbourne University. He says that much of his inspiration came from Immanuel Velikovsky’s book, Worlds in Collision. Wal was invited to attend one of Velikovsky’s conferences in Ontario in 1974, and he began to question the nature of gravity. His ideas have sparked the interest of scientists, engineers, and astronomers, and I expect that they will pique the interest of our listeners, as well.

Some of the topics and ideas that you will hear discussed on the podcast include:

[4:10]: The solar system has a more recent history than what mainstream scientists believe and teach. There is evidence that ancient mythology is based on what the planets were actually doing during ancient times.

[14:45]: While most have been taught that gravitational pulls from the sun control the spiral rotation of the planets, Wal believes that it is the plasma pinch effect, which is influenced by electrical impulses, that are in control.

[20:48]: Although the Big Bang Theory is widely accepted by mainstream science, it actually has more variables than information. Thus, it is a failing paradigm.

[38:15]: Gravity is actually repulsive at long range, not attractive. This goes along with what Newton and other scientific greats have said over the years.

[41:30]: There is evidence that suggests that Mars and Earth used to rotate around Saturn in a brown dwarf system, and that at some point in fairly recent history, after humans were already on the earth, the planets aligned into their current solar system pattern.

[49:55]: Evidence for gravitational forces not remaining consistent over time includes the fact that if today’s gravitational pull were the same during dinosaur times, the dinosaurs would not have been able to walk or even lift their enormous heads off of the ground.

[1:03:10]: The electrical exchanges that took place during the time that the earth entered the solar system were sufficient to keep some humans alive.

[1:12:50]: A plasma sheath that occurs in brown dwarf systems is a reason why we have not made contact with potentially advanced species living elsewhere in our universe.

[1:15:55]: How the electric universe paradigm can help explain paranormal occurrences like ESP.

[1:22:25]: There is some evidence to suggest that humans were physically different, perhaps much larger, than they are today during the time that the earth was part of the brown dwarf system.

[1:30:48]: Why science research can suffer when the government is in charge of funding, and how this lack of funding can discourage people from demonstrating their knowledge of nontraditional scientific models.

[1:32:00]: A discussion of whether the electric universe model can help explain the presence of UFOs.

[1:49:44]: Wal’s predictions on the future of the electrical universe movement.

Links and Resources:

The Thunderbolts Project

Thunderbolts of the Gods Chapter 1 and Order Form

The Electric Universe Chapter 1 and Order Form

Previous THC show with David Talbot

Worlds in Collision by Immanuel Velikovsky

Mankind in Amnesia by Immanuel Velikovsky

Dwardu Cardona Star Series (scroll to bottom)

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Wal: Mathematics can describe things, but it can’t explain things.

Wal: There’s no university on earth that teaches the big picture.

Wal: Gravity is short-range attractive and long-range repulsive.

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First! I mean huh oh yeah another promising episode! Keep em pumpin man! Yo doin a great job


Walt Thornhill is a true scientist.
He actually employs the scientific method. That is to investigate, to question, to hypothesize, to predict, to experiment.
Most brain-dead Einstein Zionist slaves refuse to look at anything that goes against the plagiarist and sexual deviant Albert Einstein.

In any event, Astronomy (but not Plasma Physics which is at the heart of the Electric Universe: PLASMA) is a monstrous hoax perpetrated on humanity to hide the true nature of our plane(t) and our very beings.

If one determines that the Earth is flat (without emotion), then it necessarily follows that the Earth is made according to purposeful design.
You cannot have a Flat Earth from random action and scientific principles. It just cannot happen.
Thus someone sat down on some unimaginable celestrial workbench and came up with the Earth.
From this we prove that Eratosthenes line of reasoning was entirely false (Aswan, Alexandria).
The Earth is a Closed System meaning Geocentric not Heliocentric.
From this it immediately follows that there are:

No Planets
No Stars
No Galaxies
No SuperClusters
No Pulsars
No Quasars
No Black Holes.

Everything about Astronomy (not the Electric Universe) is a HOAX!
Astronomy DOES NOT EXIST !


You forgot to add gravity does not exist aswell. 😉

My, “thumbs up” is solely in agreement with the fraudulent scientific accomplishments of Einstein. The rest of your post? I can agree to disagree.

Einstein is such a massive fraud through and through. It’s truly a shame more are not aware of this fact. Personally, I prefer the scientific method as applied by the likes of Nikola Tesla.


It’s electric & flat.


…and magnetic, and a toroid, and a sphere……oh, and holographic. 😉

The more you know, the more you know you don’t know a damn thing! 🙂
The more you think you know……


If you keep up with all of these astute questions Greg, your simple stoner cover is going to be blown…
An Electric Universe makes a lot of sense, especially in reference to observable phenomena.
The transition from a Proto Saturn brown dwarf system to the Sun paradigm is the challenging concept to digest, particularly in such a recent time frame. However, it does put me in mind of Hopi Ant People and Cappadocian tunnels…
Luckily for us conspiracy veterans with flexible realities, we realise that you don’t have to adopt theories wholesale, just throw it into the mix and see what sticks together.


It’s already blown! 🙂

Just when I thought my mixmaster was full, along comes another load; gonna have to up spec to a cement mixer!! 😉


Flat earth guys………? Lol. Look at the moon at night. Look at the sun during the day. Look at planets through telescopes or when they get close enough to see the circles they are. Look at a bubble in the water. Look at a raindrop in the air. Look at the your own body. Look at the body of anything that exists and see there is nothing flat about any of it. Everything seems to formulate into spheres, or at least 3 dimensional objects. Except the earth. Makes perfect sense to me. By all means, tell everyone all about it.

On another topic, Electric universe theory. Super interesting. Hard to follow the science. But great interview as usual Gregg.


Flat Earth does not mean two-dimensional Earth…


Does it not imply the superimposition of a two dimensional rationale on a multi dimensional world? A reduction of possibility to base polarity of the infinite? At what stage does up and down not become within and without about the centre of awareness?


Thank you for your balanced, rational, open minded work.

P Keene

Great show and month, with threads linking all of the shows.

I believe the electric universe theory has been proven to be accurate many times over. The proof of it’s accuracy so far lies with the predictability of the make up and behaviour of comets. Wal has made predictions about comets that have been validated by the data returned by probes fired into them. Nasa and main stream scientists are continually baffled by the results and invent additional caveats to their theories to try to explain these “anomalous findings”.
Separating the findings of Thornhill and Talbot is not needed. They are complimentary, not exclusive. That there exists an electric universe, with electro “gravitational” forces that both attract and repel, does not depend on seeing a brown dwarf with planets orbiting. Indeed the current method of discovering new planets by looking at the “gravitational” force acting upon a star, has re-enforced the EU model, as it has evidenced planetary orbits impossible under the current “gravitational attraction” model and predicted by EU.
David Talbot’s work and approximate dating does tie in with a lot of archeological evidence. There are a lot of cities carved into rock, ala Petra, Malta and Cappadocia, the burying of Gobekli Tepi and more that suggest there was a need to be protected from the elements around that time period. Is it difficult to accept how recently, only because of years of being told that the solar system is 4.5 billion years old and the universe 14 billion from the “big bang”? After all, geologists started dating rocks as millions of years old based on this dating of the universe.
Hawking pseudo science like blackholes and Einstein’s self contradictory theories is a great way of controlling the direction of mainstream science. Many, many, many leading scientists rejected Einstein, but marketing triumphed at science’s detriment. Science should be understandable, theories are put out to be scrutinised and tested, only becoming accepted as facts when replicable by experimentation or process. EU theory has passed every examination available so far, making it a theory well on its way to factual status. Yet, despite the repeated evidence, you will virtually never hear it in the mainstream, even to be rejected. Making it all the more true for me.


Great show. I think the electric universe model explains anomalies of other theries and ties everytging together so well that it has put me in a mode of re-thinking everything from an electric universe perspective. .. and I gotta tell ya, I’m feeling like I just got initiated in to the Elite’s school of higher education. Everything takes on a more fundamental truth to the point that you can fill in all the holes in all of the bullshit theories we have been force fed.

Its very obvious, to me atleast, that if we were allowed to learn these principles in our education system and build or recalibrate our scientific measuring devices and procedures to an electric universe model approach we could unlock the secrets of the ancients, “free energy”, advanced dynamic lift and propulsion technologies, health, the understanding of sacred geometry, the paranormal and even life itself. .. and so much more.

There are a few cornerstones in the Elite’s pyramid of knowledge and control, and brothers and sisters, I believe we just heard about one of them in this episode.

Great interview, Greg. Bravo.


It makes very good sense, this idea. Especially I jive with the Sun or Saturn ejecting material to form planets. Makes more sense then gravity randomly “Choosing” a spot in the materail disc to form a planet. If we are to assume that a large rock attracted all the smaller rocks (Agario anyone?) There should be no planets, as they would all be inside the Sun by now.


Especially if the ‘material’ they are ejecting is ‘light’ that drops below the ‘speed of light’ and becomes plasma, and then on, to ‘solids’.

This has the side effect that the ‘Sun’,( portal) is constantly forming and reforming everything ‘below’ it…. and then things get a little bit more strange! 🙂

If everything that we think is solid is just a different vibration field of electrics and magnetics, then this isn’t a set and forget ‘reality’; it would be a constant, continuous system of checks and balances.

I wonder, are we a check, or a balance…?


This guy is just covering up flat earth, I am outraged!

(Just kidding, I always love electric universe stuff)


Great month Greg. Delighted with my plus membership, especially since your interviews are thoughtful and generally clear of your own agenda (except perhaps, hollow earth and psychedelics, which is fine by me ;-). I have been following all of this stuff since I was a kid in the 70s and subsequently got the straight science education in the navy, even the nuclear stuff, much of which at the time I was taught it seemed like BS. When asked, the instructors would sigh, seemingly admitting that they agreed with the observation and say something like, “For the purposes of this course and your success in the Navy Nuclear program, you are gonna have to just push the “I BELIEVE” button.”
A few comments/suggestions/observations:
1. I, being open minded about everything, given how much we have been lied about, looked deeply into Flat Earth but could not get past a few things I KNOW first hand:
A. I have watched the masts of ships, buildings and land masses heave into view as we approached from sea. I have observed likewise with radar and radio signals.
B. It is pretty obvious, though a lot of well meaning folks truly believe it, the meme was quite, perhaps too, professionally revived in order to cast doubt on the whole alternate/truther movement. Note how on you tube you will always see FE stuff next to pretty established conspiracy stuff like Fed reserve and Rothchild etc.
C. is NASA playing shenanigans, along with a lot of other public space programs? Yes and probably to cover up at least EU if not much more. But observation, intuition, and Occam all say roundish Earth. As above, so below.
2. Having drunk deep as anyone from the EU cup, for a long time I was in accord with Wal re time travel until I came upon those studies that showed people’s brains reacting to shocking photos before they were shown. See Dean Radin’s Supernormal book for more explanation. I am sure there is more out there on web. The experiment has been replicated and definitely shows some sort of signal travelling back in time as we perceive it. Crap! How to reconcile that with EU, which so elegantly predicts so many other observations? EU does not proscribe time travel, Wal just says you don’t need it to solve the equations like you do with the Standard Model. I think The Law Of One left a clue in that it pointed to the physics of Dewey Larson. From what I can tell he and EU can coexist without compromise and that gives us time travel, timelines, premonitions etc. May be worth looking into someone who can speak to this.
3. You are right on re S Hawking. He is a marketing tool, like Albert of the crazy hair before him but without the pesky ability to doubt his proclamations aloud. He, like Paul of the Beatles, was likely replaced. BTW he (or rather his writing team) has/have been backing off on the black hole thing and ooching towards a Nassim Harriman (have my doubts re him btw) style black whole, which itself is very much like a Z pinch.

As we begin to uncover how we have been BSed we need to be on the look out that the next paradyme is not just a better looking cul de sac.


“For the purposes of this course and your success in the Navy Nuclear program, you are gonna have to just push the “I BELIEVE” button.”

I fucking love this!! More people than you think know most of the BS around them. They are just not going to be the ones to pull the covers.


Damn, I commented too early!

The time travel thing; I am right there with you. Just because the EU does not need it, does not mean it doesn’t happen!

Anyone who has had more than cursory play with divination tools, and then tried to stick your hand in to grab the letter after you have dropped it through the slot, which is to say, more divination, less tool, comes back with a feeling that you are talking to ‘Self’ in the future, or perhaps just background ‘Future’.( for those who find all that a bit New-Agey, well, the New Age Deception has don it’s job then, hasn’t it?!)
But because things sometimes don’t quite turn out as prescribed,( and in hilarious ways 🙂 ) or the message doesn’t seen to be harmonic, like it is coming from the next door radio station, it is more like you are talking to a one future ‘Self’ out of many possible futures, and just by the fact of the contact, you have changed things. So as soon as you get the message, it is next to pointless!! Which is waaaay better than pointless 🙂
This being the case, you need to project out at least three different streams;
1. The straight line between the message,( point B) and where you are now,( point A).
2. How knowing point B will change that line, and where it will then take you,( point C).
3. Calculating the most unlikely route to point C from A, detouring through point N. ( I call this the Napoleon Star Chart, after his oft cited quote: “If your opponent has only 3 possible options to take on the field, He WILL take the fourth.”

So if asking a future self a question, and getting back an answer that is not just right, but wrong in all the right ways is not time travel, then what is?

Let alone the visualisation tech of seeing someone as a baby to try and heal a persistent problem that just refuses to be ‘fixed’ in ‘meat time’, finding the root of the problem, fixing it, and then having the problem resolve itself near-instantly in ‘meat time’, to the point that the person can’t see what the big deal is/was because ‘it’ was never really that big of an issue!! ( Mandela effect?)

If you can take Doctor Who as a metaphor,( in the same way that Monkey Magic is a metaphor!) then shit starts to get real…


Speaking of cul del sac, I found Judy Wood’s stuff a couple of years back and it totally resonated with me. I had always had my doubts re the established truther line because I knew a bit about nuclear power and thermite and also noticed how the buildings seemed to dissolve or dustify. I have have since used Judy as a litmus test of a given source of alternate info. If they refuse to discuss her or try and marginalize her they are merely controlled opposition. I got my plus membership when I saw you put her on and heard her out.


Yes, Judy is right about DEW but I suspect that — like SK Bain of ‘Most Dangerous Book’ fame – she may still be in the employ of the PTB. I say this because her work does only one thing: tell us what we already knew, ie, that the PTB HAVE dew and can zap us (from space) any time they want. In 15 years she has never mentioned or dealt with Who did 9/11. No excuse for that. Again, her work only warns us that we are vulnerable any time, any where. (BTW, she also insists she ‘has no theory.’ Her theory is right on the cover: DEW on 9/11. That is in fact a THEORY.


I took her claim at face value that she was just about proving how it happened and did not want to get into who did it. But you could have a point. I think they are always trying to split off those who get it. It does seem like the towers were not exactly push button. I think the hurricane seemed to be a mechanism or side effect of charging up the complex in prep for some sort of harmonic signal that would zorch the iron. Their construction may have also made them more susceptible to being charged up as well. I think I read something re the metal cladding,…


I think Judith’s angle is pretty damned spectacular. Focus on the concrete, hard science, and let that lead us to the truth, rather than accusing someone and attacking, without any actual concrete proof other than being angry and suspecting (no matter how correctly) the culprits. And I’m sorry, but saying she hasnt actually done anything…. When she took her actual provable calculations to court to SUE THE US GOVERNMENT FOR COVER UP, they had to throw it out because it was too sound to challenge, and one judge asked her if she had a death wish. Those who would call her a hack may have tried some more potent angle, so I could understand their frustration. And Holy Crap! “No excuse for that”!!?? No excuse needed. Seriously. They CAN zap you anytime, anywhere. I would suggest going to your nearest mirror and repeating that to yourself 25 times until you get the point. Once you have that firmly anchored in place, you may more appreciate the service that people like Judith Wood are doing by trying credibly get everyone to acknowledge that fact instead of pretending that some savior is going to come and do their job collectively for them.

No offense, but must we seek to discredit those who are actually DOING SOMETHING?


Ugh paradigm, sorry. Engineers not always spell good. Anyway in other news, here is where I first read of the Hawking thing, though I always suspected. The thing is, according to this guy, pretty much everyone has been replaced or faked his death…. Discernment required,


Just listening now, but quickly wanted to say that i really like the banner logo on the episode image. It looks real slick. ?


can Flat Earthers explain different time zones? can Flat Earthers explain sunset and sunrise?


They can explain those things, and have. Do some research and you will find answers to your questions.


oh no they don’t!


Its all about how the sun and moon work in the flat earth model, and how our eyes and vision work. Time zones and sunrise/sunset are quickly and easily explained, with a demo if you watch videos. I don’t know why you are not able to find sufficient explanations…


I like the flat earth model in many ways but when it comes to explaining sunrise and sunset it so far is not clear or convincing to me. The sun setting is supposed to be it being pulled further away like how things vanish on the horizon as they move further away. However setting suns are quite visible until they move below the horizon. Another explanation is it being like a spotlight overhead which also fails to create the desired sunrise/sunset that we all experience. I think some super strong points have been brought up that we in fact are not spinning at 1000 mph and that we don’t live on a ball and likely have a firmament above us and have never gone beyond it. How the sun and moon and seasons work is still up for debate and needs further research imo.


the sun does not form an asymptote to the flat earth, it does not become vanishingly small as it approaches the horizon, it is clearly bisected as it crosses the horizon and the light does not have some kind of maximum distance… ergo, flat earth is debunked


The electric universe crowd don’t yet have the balls to deal with the expanding earth or the hollow earth. They don’t have the balls to deal with the fact that the current model of the atom is a complete fraud. Atomic energy and atomic weapons is a complete fraud. Fossil fuel is a fraud. Geological aging is a complete fraud. And Einstein is a prick!


I don’t think EU precludes either. In fact, one theory I had for reconciling EE with EU was all the plasma pouring into the poles. Though another involves the “hot” FTL core of the planet emerging into space/time from time/space as is “cools” somewhat in accordance with Larson’s reciprocal systems theory (or monoatomic gold). Much like the backward time travelling signals mentioned above, the EE observational evidence needs to be accounted for in any theory of everything. Re the atomic model, I tend to agree, along with the accepted nature of electricity. Larson makes a VERY strong case against the existence of electrons in atoms. So much like history, we need to go way back and reevaluate some early scientific assumptions. I think our current (no pun intended) model of electricity is sufficient for our level of tech much like the Bohr/electron shell model of the atom is ok for most chemistry, but it is obviously wrong or incomplete. It falls apart in dealing with semi conductors and tunneling effects. Also monatomics.
If forced to guess I think Wal’s neutrino plenum is the ether/prana/chi/orgone and that it manifests as matter as a result of downconverting harmonics and standing waves. Different atoms are probably different standing waves of platonic solids in the ether…


@ — blackshoe10 April 30, 2016 at 11:41 AM
my question is, you mentioned mono-gold, to you mean that as the white powder? Do you take that your self? or what do you think about this? Used with this
Well, I listened to one Dean Radin utube… one isn’t much but still the ‘Phd’ thing might be a problem, he’s still paying off student loans. Either ya got it or ya don’t. He talked about all the things he can’t do and things we can do in another 10 or 15 years! since you know of him better, what do you like about this guy? respectful thx 🙂


Not messing with taking anything. Somewhere out there are videos about monatomic gold. I know they eventually get into pushing ingesting it. I think, for no good reason except intuition, that that is a bad idea. The interesting thing is they describe this so called Ormus disappearing or fading out as it is heated. One explanation was that it started vibrating past C and thus shifted over from space/time to time/space which fits with some of what Larson was describing.
Re Radin, he also was involved with the Institute for Noetic Sciences, founded by the late Edgar Mitchell, so it is probably some kind of front or controlled entity. But that does not mean everything they put out is BS. Typically they hang out a little bit to get the curious and somewhat awake to bite. Then they have them to lead astray.
Another thing they do is to discredit a given phenomena or piece of info by having cranks propound it or creating a cult around it or selling BS about it. I think the latter is what is going on re monatomic gold. These substances have interesting properties that could help point us in a new direction re physics and they are selling them as powder that will make you into an angel. Who knows? Maybe it does.


Yes, I’m aware of INS in Petaluma, glad to know you’re not taking that stuff. I’m not one to think that taking something like that can ‘dial you in’. It’s something else, that cannot be bought or taught. I’m more inclined to think ‘right living’ and it is ‘given’. Who know is right. Thanks

Also, was wondering about the earths core not being iron.
maybe, Crystal? The ancients were more interested in that than iron, and it creates electricity.


it doesn’t preclude the things i mentuioned, but they’re too scared to deal with the things i mentioned

modern science is just a racket full of bullying, indoctrination, deception and censorship


I wonder, if the Universe in it’s wisdom gives us the reality and possibly the evidence that we expect to find based on what an individual is ready to except or understand.
What if, in this construct the ‘earth’ in our perceived notion, is round because we want it to be and flat for those who want it to be. What if, it’s both, depending on your level of perception? What if, everyone is right?
Then there is no argument. We would understand that’s where a person is in their level of understanding.
I do understand for my own being that round is 3D and I can’t go to 4th grade without finishing 3rd grade. 🙂


The Saturn Death Cult hypothesis is party based on the “electric universe” theory.


Fascinating discussion, And loving the comments.
I’m totally there with the observations about Steven Hawking.
The fakery on every level surrounding us and stuffed down us is staggering.


Fascinating discussion. And loving the comments.
I’m totally there with the observations about Steven Hawking.
The fakery on every level surrounding us and stuffed down us is staggering.

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