Today on everyone’s favorite conspiracy podcast:

Join Greg Carlwood of The Higherside Chats podcast a he talks Universal Basic Income with his guest, Scott Santens. An important piece to the conspiracy puzzle is finding solutions to problems long identified. Instead of grandiose ideas of a technocratic utopia and pipe dream paradigms of exotic technologies firmly locked behind the gates of possibility for decades, moderator of the Basic Income community of Reddit, Scott Santens walks us through real, practical solutions we can fight for now. Greg and Scott walk through viable options for providing maximum optionality, circumventing the debt based system of rule and breaking the chains of economic slavery using something within our grasp.

2:24 Greg and Scott begin by helping to define the concept of a Universal Basic Income. Given on an individual level, the basic income is an unconditional, separate and permanent income stream meant to help pay for basic needs of citizens. As Scott explains, to be considered a basic income, the amount must cover the essentials, and usually hovers near the poverty line.
6:45 Addressing one of the most prominent criticisms, Greg and Scott help set the record straight about the “welfare for all” myth. Scott elaborates on the concept that under our current system, welfare pays people to do nothing, but basic income would pay people do anything. With poverty cliffs disincentivizing people to work and fear they may have to forfeit their benefits, Scott explains how Finland is using basic income to grow the job markets.
14:20 While some may still have a hard time conceptualizing the finer details associated with the basic income, the great white state Alaska, serves as a case study after having implemented a similar system for residents. Since 1982, residents have been receiving dividend payments from a state controlled investment fund. As Scott points out, Alaska has been able to turn a non-renewable resource into a permanent, renewable source of income, securing it’s post as a leader among states with residents with the highest well being, the lowest overall poverty levels and lowest wealth inequality.
24:50 Greg and Scott discuss how a basic income is consistent with any philosophy from conservatives to liberals, and libertarians to socialists. Listen as Scott explains how the basic income theory is universal and details the appeal from various philosophical perspectives. Greg and Scott also examine the growing need for a universal basic income due to the rise in technology and the best ways to incorporate this into a new, simplified tax code.
 
31:45 Continuing with the discussion of taxation, Greg and Scott detail the best possible options to restructure the current tax code to include things such as a Pigovian tax, and debt-free publicly created money. Although money should be considered as a public good, under our current system, money is not accessible to all citizens and even then, for most comes with the added price of interest. Scott contends money should be born in the hands of the people rather than bankers. Under this new paradigm, the need for an ever growing economy to cover the cost of accrued interest would disappear, leaving a more sustainable system for citizens.
36:30 Can we really afford this? Listen as Greg and Scott detail the best ways to look at the overall cost. As Scott explains, the introduction of a universal basic income, while deceptively seeming more expensive than we can afford, when all costs are considered, is less than many originally think. Additionally, with the introduction of the universal basic income, the need for various social programs already in place drastically declines, as many people would no longer qualify for such benefits.
42:10 Addressing another aspect of the universal basic income, Greg and Scott examine how this may affect crime rates by offering citizens not only incentives to avoid crime, but a sense of community and overall well being.
45:40 Revisiting the Manitoba pilot experiment out of Canada, Greg and Scott consider the various aspects of life and society that improved while citizens received a basic income. From a drop in crime rates, to a reduction in hospital visits attributed to domestic violence and work place accidents, the decrease in overall stress financially is directly accredited to these improvements. Scott also discusses the results of the Great Smoky Mountains Study of Youth, which was a long term study of kids living in poverty that showed when an increase in income was present, children’s health, wellness, agreeability, and overall well-being improved.
49:50 A common concern regarding the basic income is the dependency on government. Greg and Scott discuss the effects of programs already in place such as Social Security, and the dividends in Alaska and how voting blocks receiving these benefits tend to have more civic power, vote in higher numbers and take more active roles in the governing process.
55:17 Being dependent on your employer, in a time where the work force in being exploited more and more can be a dis-empowering situation. Greg and Scott discuss howa basic income allows workers to have more civic power by eliminating the fear of repercussions from their employer for their political views, and the impact this can have on real change.
57: 40 Greg and Scott explore the effects a basic income has on small businesses. With additional capital, and more freedom and time to devote to passion projects, the economic landscape would drastically change and eliminate the corporate chokehold. Scott details examples from Namibia and India to unconditional cash transfers of Give Directly, and Sam Altman’s upcoming social experiment in Oakland.
1:01:00 Nothing speaks volumes like real world examples and the data that comes with them. Greg and Scott discuss the best examples to reference including, Alaska, Namibia, India, Finland, Liberia, and North Carolina and how one common factor has been the sky rocketing self employment.
1:09:00 Greg and Scott dispel the stereotype of Native American’s receiving benefits having higher dependency rates on things such as drugs and alcohol. Scott helps to clarify by discussing the Rat Park study and explains, living conditions and feelings of isolation have huge impacts on drug and alcohol use.
1:18:20 Concern from other economists include the hoarding of this additional income stream, and the inevitable unbalance it will create in our economy. Greg and Scott discuss how unfounded these concerns are, especially considering the massive inequality in today’s system. As Scott points out, there are basic multiplier effects where people spend on their basic needs, and those at the bottom, keep the economy healthy.  They also tackle the topic of inflation and how in a more competitive market, inflation is healthy, but price gouging becomes more difficult.
1:25:00 Greg and Scott address another looming concern regarding universal basic income: immigration. With a basic income requiring official government documentation, Scott explains how it encourages immigrants to adhere to immigration laws in place instead of illegally circumventing these laws and risking the ability to receive any benefits.
Want more Scott Santens? Check out the subReddit r/BasicIncome and the website basicincome.org for more information.
Want to hear more THC? Become a plus member and gain access to the additional hour as well as the THC forums! If you want to stay connected to The Higherside Chats, like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter, check out our YouTube channel, find us on Reddit, or review us on iTunes. Thanks for support, and until next time.
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66 Comments ( click here to leave a comment )

66 responses to “Scott Santens | Universal Basic Income”

  1. Cheers! Very thoughtful Greg.
    Shows like this (UBI), or on sugar,
    and other forays in to lifestyle changes…
    Your wide-gamut of humanist interests
    and shows are very helpful, and reminds us to
    take care of the self, most certainly,
    even while exposing and altering
    the corrupt power pyramid.

     
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  2. Awesome, firing up the ol’ usb speakers now. I miss the P.A. system from my old job, but nothing will beat listening to THC at home with tea, a big spliff and nothing to do tomorrow except whatever I want.

    Like the saying goes; Fuck work, smoke weed, listen to Slayer!

     
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  3. Sorry to be a wet blanket, but money does not come from nowhere. The money to fund this kind of system comes from WORKing people ie taxes. The fewer workers the higher the taxes to pay for all you non workers( Democrats). A flat sale tax is all that is needed. Where is it written that life is easy, grow up, be the man or woman you are meant to be and enjoy what you earn, just don’t cause undue pain to anyone along the way and enjoy the ride. Keep up the fire !!

     
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    • There are those who would spend much more, fearing street crime (Republicans). That money still comes from WORKing people, meaning those who labor for every cent they earn, rather than let accumulated wealth do their earning, making the capitalist system do all the work for them, stashing it all in tax shelters. Whether they ever really worked at all, or got it from daddy, they are like those folks we’ve all met; born on third base, believing they hit a triple.

      A guaranteed basic income is believed to injure poor people’s moral being, while government subsidies for the richest of the corporate establishment are to be lauded, as it strengthens our economy. You know, a rising tide lifts all yachts.

      Gotta keep yanking those bootstraps. There are those whose unspoken motto is, “I’ve got mine. Fuck you, get your own.” (Libertarians — a.k.a., Republicans who want to get high and get laid.) They think they’ve done it all on their own, with a blind spot for all that infrastructure that some other working stiffs paid for before they ever got their first paper route.

      Sorry if all of this got said already on the show, as I am only 16 minutes into it. Really enjoying it so far.

      Namasté,

      Satya

       
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      • True but I’m afraid “tax”(compensation for efforts) is real money, fiat currency has no intrinsic value, it has pass through “our” hands for it to gain true wealth, that’s why the Mint doesn’t pay the money straight to the tax man, it has to go through us first. This universal wage idea is soo dumb!

         
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    • ‘Currency’ comes from nowhere. Money (be it shells, tally sticks, gold or silver) does not. Currency is the lube that allows for a decided upon transaction to take place in the marketplace. Money stores wealth (okay maybe not shells nor tally sticks anymore but silver for sure!). Currency allows for the wealth to flow. I don’t mean to get semantic but seriously…who the fuck was taught this in ‘skool’…duh…none of us (I’m Canadian). Until such time we all have a basic understanding of the language around this topic we will be at a loss to solve the issues. Cheerio!

       
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  4. Nice, I’ll check this out later. I took a look at the subreddit for “Basic Income” and was blown away by the quote in the first post I saw.

    “I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops.” – Stephen Jay Gould

    This quote has been on my mind for awhile now. Just imagine what can be done if people weren’t in survival mode all the time. Can’t wait to check out the show!

     
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    • While I have had a couple of bones to pick with Stephen Jay Gould (no pun intended), that was a thought that could reach to the heart of any intelligent being who had one. Thank you, Chukobyte.

      Here’s another quote I like, from someone with whom I have little over which to differ.

      “You must decide at the outset what it is you wish to do, make money, or make sense, because the two are mutually exclusive.
      ~R. Buckminster Fuller

      Namasté,

      Satya

       
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      • Here’s another Bucky byte for this morning. It should fit in here quite well.

        “You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”
        ~R. Buckminster Fuller

         
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      • Thanks for providing those awesome quotes! I’ve actually come across the second quote that you posted and I live my life by it. Even though I’m not exactly where I would like to be, my life is slowly moving toward the direction that I want as I’m building this new model.

         
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  5. I’m downloading this show now and hanging on to it as an incintive to get out of bed early tomorrow morning without hitting snooze. Morning chores and commute have now become a net positive!

    Thanks for stretching out and tackling potentially tricky subjects like this (with a great guest.) This is a topic that I wish every politician in the country would publicly debate. I’ll try to post again after listening.

    Thanks Greg!

     
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  6. I just finished it. Great and refreshing ideas.

    As someone who has lived a minimalist lifestyle for many decades, inspired by a couple of extremely generous people I had the privilege to know, and also by the boy, Edgar Cayce, who told the angelic vision who came to him early in his life, “I just want to help people,” karma yoga became my path. I suppose I always have hoped the payoff would be that others would pay it forward, as I was moved to do by those two men who affected me so much. It turns out that there really is no payoff such as I hoped for, not so it would show much at any rate. So, the doing of it was just the doing, and really, it is enough. I can’t say I am sorry, or that I have been cheated. I would do it all again.

    This podcast made me think of Daniel Pinchbeck, who introduced me to the idea of the “gift economy.” My one Rainbow Family Gathering experience if 1984 showed me some of what that is. The truth is, there is so much in this world for all of us when we don’t live in the fear of scary futures created (or planted) in our imaginations. Beyond this, if we weren’t so bent on making it big, for whatever sick psychological reasons, how much extra would we be able to have, and sharing this, what would be the outcome for our limited planetary home?

    As to this ‘cast, I could, and would, live quite well on $1000 a month. But, I have long had the dream of starting one or more environmentally sustainable (or enhancing) cooperative businesses, or worker owned companies. If this UBI were in place, finding a workforce for such start-ups would be much easier, yes?

    Anyway, great show, Greg. Very inspiring.

    ===============================

    Greg, at 1:50:00, you said that you think the forums are back working. Sorry to say, not so I can tell. It has been three weeks and six days since I came on the scene. Things seemed to stop working not too long after that. New topics never posted. No posts were noted in the Freshness column. I was not allowed to edit, getting an error page when I tried. I have kept a tab open in the forum and refreshed it several times a day since it stopped working for me. I can still find a few new posts here and there, but not by what the front page says. The newest post I can see there is two weeks and five days old. No new topics can be found anywhere after that.

    I hope this helps sort it out.

    Thanks in advance.

    Namasté,

    Satya

     
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  7. Add interest free money to the mix.

    Abraham Maslow’s “Hierarchy Of Needs” – gotta take care of basic needs before development of the higher self can take place.

    It was historically looked down upon when one was forced into “wage slavery”

    After traditional slavery was outlawed by the Brits to impose the European Model – that in which the slave was forced to fend for himself and the burden/expense of care was passed to the slave with a meager wage that would be used for these same costs…”back to the company store” – what would become known as wage slavery.

    Perhaps after a generation or two of everyone having basic income/money supply the thought may occur to someone – why do we need money?

     
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  8. What if you add $100/month for each year you spend in the military?
    So, someone would get $1,000 + $1,200/month for 10 years of service?
    That should take care of any pension related items…

     
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    • No, KIngRichard…with NIRP and ZIRP and a high level of retirement (cresting with boomers), coupled with market collapse of 2008 (on going) pensions are about to collapse. You may recall Bill Clinton put most of your, ha, well here it’s canada pension plan…yers…is SSC?, Into general funds (ie they are gone) to balance the budget to make himself look good for reelection whenever the heck that was. You can simply print but then you get Weimar.

       
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  9. Sweden has a stipend for each child… you get it from birth till they are 16.
    I believe it is about $150/child/month… supposed to cover the basics.
    I believe it would be the equivalent of the earned child tax credit here.
    The more children you have, the bigger the amount is. (You get an additional stipend if you have more kids.)

    This page has a table showing it (in Swedish).
    http://barnbidrag.info/
    First Column (# of kids)
    Second Column (Stipend – 1 US$ = 7.5 SEK)
    Third Column (additional stipend)
    Fourth Column (sum of all stipends)

     
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  10. I believe the way to do a test of this in the USA would be to go by completely PRIVATE money… Perhaps even bait the government for some grant money of sorts… involve a university to do it (perhaps grant monies can come from here).
    Then pick a small town in rural Iowa or something, or perhaps a border town in Texas/NewMexico somewhere, and do the test with 1,000 people… This is basically $12 million/year… So we’d like to do a run for 10 years, to see how it runs, and study the effects.
    We’d need 120 million – this shouldn’t be hard to get, with donations from Walmart, Bill Gates foundation, Wouldn’t you agree?

     
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    • I would like to invite them to do my county of 4,000 souls. The land is mostly owned by one timber extraction company. It’s the one holding the most timberland in the world, presided over from Toronto. Perhaps they could cough up the cost. They took their company’s name from John Hancock, the biggest signature on the Declaration of Independence. I wonder if they hold any rights to be self evident.

       
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  11. Love the highersides Greg! Thanks for all you bring to us. Going to listen to this one later but thought I’d drop a few lines here for the first time. Money is mind, we only need each other. Realizing that it is magic and comes from nothing will be the next step for us to advance. We don’t need free money or fake money, we just need cooperation.

     
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  12. I like the idea, I really do, but the implementation of such systems are nearly impossible, especially in today’s society. I like the thought of, and hope that comes from talking about such a system brings but the control hungry system in place now simply won’t allow it to be implemented.

    I feel that the only way such a system would be possible is to start small enclosed and separate communities with a huge amount of donated money with no catches. The elite control the flow of money, government officials in key positions, the media, jobs, education, wars, the energy, food, land and they are going for the most valuable commodity: water. The implementation of the proposed system would undermine everything they have worked for, and even a small community would show promise to the larger population so why would they allow such a thing? There are already laws against separate communities wi

     
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  13. (Didn’t mean to send the comment above yet)…. with such ideas as the one put forth here. And if you find a bunch of loopholes you then have to deal with the media aspect. They will try to make you look like a crazy cult. If that doesn’t work they will come up with a reason to enforce people in to manage your community. If that doesnt work they will find an excuse to attack and destroy.

    It seems to me that the system we have today is the way it will always sift out as long as we have certain human characteristics in our society. Greedy, power and control hungry people will always rise to the top, buddy up with other like-minded individuals and try to take over all of society, hoard resources and create a system of total control. Now, we cant eliminate those characteristics completely because we need them in our nature to allow people to want to be leaders and understand the need for some sort of control in our society. Creating a well balanced and happy society in the single biggest problem, and most important goal, in our reality.

    This all comes back to my Theory of Everything. We seem to be consciousnesses in one of many running simulations built to teach and evolve us to a point where we can be extracted from the simulation and into the society that we are so longing to create. Its like a learning center and application process to get in to Heaven. I think there are certain negative energies that are always placed in the system to manipulate the circumstances to end up just like they are now… and worse. I could go much more into this and tie together hundreds of ancient teachings from all over the world, scientific data, paranormal anomalies, secrete teachings, unknown basis for the system of law, occult symbolism and so much more but I will try to stay on course.

    In conclusion, I feel that its a good idea to hash out structured systems like this to be ready to be in place but i think it is impossible to strong arm such a system in to existence and be government backed in these times. Instead, we should focus on starting up many, many small communities and then linking the communities together. Even that seems pretty impossible from my view point but at least its a hopeful goal.

     
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      • No, it would be something about changing from the failed model by the entertaining an idea that there are other models, some with track records already established here in the USofA. If the UBI is too radical for consideration, how about worker owned companies/cooperatives? Of course, the .01% establishment has got the deck stacked against that too, and has won that battle before, but still the cooperative movement ferments below the surface in this country, but the MSM isn’t going to tell us that.

        Greg is selling a T-shirt that asks, “WHAT’S AFTER CAPITALISM?” Well…? Let’s not wait for an errant asteroid hit or a nuclear war to find out.

        How about, “Meet the new boss… hey it’s us!”

         
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    • This section here is not the forum… its just a “comments” page for the interview and there is no notification process to alert you of new comments. You just have to keep checking back. I look at the number of comments and wait for a change. Then you have to sift through to find the new comments. Its more laborious the more the number of comments increase.

      As for the forum part, yes there is a notification process in place but it doesnt seem to work. Well, it doesnt work for me at least. I don’t have access to the coding part of the site so its a fix that has to be sorted out by someone with the permission and ability.

      I hope I answered your question satisfactorily. The problems have been noticed and are on the long list of things to be accomplished but Greg is pretty busy trying to provide the content we all love. The forum is just a bonus he decided to give us in his spare time. Its a complicated endeavor to accomplish and maintain, especially when your main objective takes up so much time. We apologize for the current lack of notification process but its a small price to pay for such a great additional channel of communication that Greg has provided for us as a gift and gesture of appreciation.

      Thanks again, Greg. :o)

       
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      • I, in good part, signed up for having the space to discuss ways we might kick over the political, scientific, spiritual gridlock/stranglehold of this waning age of darkness. I am probably not that long for being in a body, too old to just sit and listen. Greg has come up with something here that brings open minds together in this space. This internet can be a good two way street.

        I was in near the ground floor of NPR’s forum in the mid ’90s. They had no idea what it meant to let the kiddies they talked down to have a place to talk back. They had to kill it, because making a nation of reporters and commentators turned out to not be in line with their mission of propaganda, fitted to the left of center, and moving that center to the right. So, I would ask Greg to empower his audience, which is an act of bravery and trust. I have listened to Greg being interviewed now a bunch of times, and if I read him correctly, he would want just such an empowerment.

        So, I hope the forum not only comes back to working correctly, but even improves, as there are other platforms that work better from the git. Hopefully some cool techie THC fan will step up and volunteer to do this.

        As the ’50s cartoon character, Pogo, said, “We is surrounded by insurmountable opportunities.”

         
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      • Yeah that notifications thing is really really important and I can’t make it work. It’s on my list but we’re doing a lot of changes in the next 2 months and I think it might just get fixed in the larger overhaul.

         
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        • Sweet! I was excited to start really getting involved in the forums, only to find them just starting to malfunction. I figured you and pals were aware and on top of it as much as you can be, though. Larger overhaul sounds quite promising!
          Solid, thought-provoking episode here too.

           
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  14. The money is there and it is ours and this could be done via a benevolent hand and an end to corruption within government that generally diverts most of our taxes into things we the common folks will never benefit from. Putting it into action is another story entirely.

    I would add though that a flat tax would shift a further burden onto the majority of people as the top 5 percent who make most of the income in the US would have a substantial reduction while everyone else would need to pony up to balance the shortfall. Do away with loopholes sure but not taxes being graduated.

     
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    • Also wanted to add a couple interesting links on 2 wall street journal income lists. One from 2011 and another from 2016. Notice how the same income in 2011 puts you in a much lower percentage of top earners than in 2016. Meaning quite literally people on average were making more 5 years ago than today. Which doesn’t even touch on the continued devaluation we see year after year. Further proof that people are continuing to backslide economically in this so called recovery.

      http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/19/what-percent-are-you/

      http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/03/02/what-percent-are-you-2/

       
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      • Another interesting sidenote regarding the flat tax idea. Federal tax is the largest tax most of us pay. Currently the top 5% pay 56% of the total collected while the bottom 75% pay 14% of the total. The bottom 75% would likely see their tax burden double or triple under a flat tax as top rates and bottom rates meet in the middle. If the numbers are to be trusted anyways.

        http://dailysignal.com/2015/04/15/how-much-do-the-top-1-percent-pay-of-all-taxes/

         
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        • Listening to this episode got me so pumped – in fact, I couldn’t help but think of how a Universal Basic Income could be implemented within a public banking framework, where the funds are created out of thin air (w/o interest) – but instead of taxing folks on their cut AFTER distribution, what if instead, the tax is created AT THE SAME TIME as the UBI amount destined for the recipient (ex. 12k to recipient, 2k “tax” to public bank coffers to be spent on infrastructure, public utilities, etc) while using the Post offices for access to banking activities.
          I tried starting up a conversation about this topic after having listened to the episode a couple of times but got derailed by some seriously detailed questions I had no way of answering at the tip of my tongue – it seems so easy to get stuck in the weeds trying to hash out nitty-gritty aspects with folks who seem to think there should be a cut and dry response that can package this concept up into one box with a neat little bow – top that off with all the myths people believe about how money/currency work and it’s an uphill battle fo’ sho’ …
          My biggest hang-up at the moment relates to distribution/access of said funds – using a centralized system could easily pervert the best of intentions by putting us all squarely within the confines of the control grid (using fingerprints, for example, as a unique identifier for each individual to be used as the basis for each account? – how would we guard against Orweillian tactics being used against us or is this just me being paranoid?)

           
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  15. Strong arming the government and the elite that control the government with a total new system is just a silly idea. I’m not sure why its even being talked about. The only way to pull off such a system is to do it in a way that doesn’t threaten the puppet master’s plans.

    Short game: Keep it secrete and small enough not to cause too big of ripple in the pond or you will have to fight the system so much that it will never fully get off the ground. Use your extra time to get your ducks in a row for the mid to long game process.

    Mid game: Get all the wrinkles worked out, secure the system and get ready for the barrage of issues you will face when you try to grow your system and you are noticed as a threat by the puppet masters.

    Long game: There will be no long game if you don’t focus on the short and mid game.

    Going against the Elite and their government to change their hard earned system to one that benefits the common folk is a quick way to piss away all your time and money. It would be like a silly little chess game to them and you starting with just pawns and a king and they own a chess game company with an unlimited amount of extra pieces to replace what you capture because your playing in their Den… “House Rules” are posted on the wall… under the teak wood paneling. Don’t worry, they have he rules memorized. And if they can’t remember they will make up some rules as they go along. Good luck.

     
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    • Sounds like it could be easily co opted by private interest as the Globalist model of a Socialist cashless society, with the on/off switch for financial life support at their fingertips. Not that it is necessarily worse than anything going on now… It is just that these intellectually benevolent models often assume we have only arrived at the current situation through misadventure and/or incompetence rather than any nefarious design with control as it’s intent.
      If history shows us anything, it is that finance is the medium through which power is facilitated. Not only in implementation, but also in deprivation. In the end, it is a proxy for quantifying what would normally be an indefinable quality of life. By externalising this, it places the fulcrum point of a lever outside of oneself. The only question being whose advantage that leverage works toward…

       
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      • Exactly. And if “They” ever do allow such a system to be put in place you can be sure that they are convinced it will be more beneficial for them than the current system in ways we probably can’t for see how we are shooting ourselves in the foot.

         
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    • As I say about my disc golf game, “if it weren’t for a short game, I wouldn’t have no game at all.”

      The thing I have learned, as a burned out political and environmental activist, watching a lot of other activists, you can do whatever you want for change and not have to worry. They will mostly leave you alone, until they perceive that you might be becoming effective. Like Judi Bari, she scared the extractors so much that they got the cops and FBI to blow her up. When the bomb didn’t kill her, they charged her with transporting explosives. And so, chomerhino is right, play your cards close to the vest if you want to see it through to the end game. Still, we need some heroes, and they need to be honored as such. We know who they are/were, and we know they really didn’t commit suicide in every case.

      Don’t let the bastards wear you down.

      Namasté,

      Satya

       
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  16. Dear Greg,
    What an amazing show you did with Scott Santens. I was surprised and very glad to see this discussion happening.

    I always believed the unintended consequences of a universal basic income will be a breakthrough for our human society. The traditional status-quo way of doing business based on competition, scarcity and authority is no longer containable/sustainable.

    Scott made some great points throughout, reflecting on common-assumptions I had about increased government control; and great points on saving money, improving immigration. The other thing which may’ve been looked over is equality or equilibrium amongst classes and peoples (women/men; various ethnic groups) and solve the taxing-without-representation paradigm.

    Perhaps the greatest hope is for tinkerers and inventors who would have some leeway to spend time on the next breakthrough inventions. I think of the next Nikola Tesla who will come up with something new on his spare-time from his dull-unsatisfying work.

    Last but not least, for those who don’t know, Scott Santens manages a Patreon account on which he keeps updates on BasicIncome and writes articles in exchange of crowdfunding his own basic income. He is the living proof of this new paradigm and I also encourage you to check out his Frequently Asked Questions about Basic Income which is a tremendous resource on all sorts of questions you may have.

    Guide to Basic Income by Scott Santens

    Scott Santens Patreon account

    EDIT: I am posting here cause the forum has been down (unable to post) for a good couple weeks now..

     
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  17. I think the idea of a universal basic income is great. it would make things easier and better for all of us. IT would only take care of our basic needs, so if we want more money to get more things, or travel around, we only would need to work as much as we want, it just gives us more freedom, and it would open so many windows explore. Also, if someone chooses to be lazy and live out of basic income alone, that’s all they would get, and if they are fine with that, who cares. I agreed with the host, only adults and legal immigrants should receive it, that way it doesn’t become a welfare state like the one we have now……………………………………cool show overall…..

     
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  18. Brother this is one of your best shows yet. A simple, effective, achievable, life changing, paradigm shift that we can demand now and can be implemented very easily worldwide.
    Very interested to learn more as its something that ive been conducting my own thought experiments on. I didnt realize it was actually a thing before I heard this. Gald to know my receiver is working well! 😉
    Cheers mate.

     
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  19. I used to be in favour of the UBI idea but i’m not so sure now. I live in England and the so called safety net of the “welfare state” is pretty much the most degrading and inafantilising process that one is forced to go through should you have need.
    It is a process that creates dependancy on the State. On the surface, the UBI idea disposes of this because it becomes a “right” when you reach a certain age. However, this still does not lessen the fact that it is a “benefit” that the State can withdraw at any time. My own opinion is that UBI would enhance State control rather than lessen it-it would create a reliance on it for the purchase of so called basic needs. So the people who are now forced to jump through hoops to get benefits (in UK) would still be living with that fear that the benefit or UBI could be withdrawn on a whim. It is a control mechanism.
    I believe that in Russia, you can apply for free land in the East in order to farm it on a family scale. I dont know the ins and outs of it but on the surface it seems a much better solution to encourage people to make them less reliant on the state-ironic that this idea stems from Russia.
    As a side note, in Gordon Whites latest communique-TARL, he briefly mentions UBI as being a “moronic idea”. I would be interested to see if Greg can get him on to this in his next THC appearance which cant be too far away! 🙂

     
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  20. We should remember that just about anything can be used for good or ill. Do we not live with infinite possibilities? We can meet whatever comes up either in fear or wonder. The apparent state of the world at large is not seen in totality. The status quo is change. If one takes a slight step back, one gains a bit of increased perspective. If things seem bad, maybe it is just what is needed to wake enough of us up to the realization of how it got to be that way, and we make the course correction needed right now. Now is when it all happens.

     
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  21. UBI would be a nice intermediary step I guess, despite the inherent vulnerability of any system to being manipulated for the benefit of a hierarchy of control. At least it might bring home the arbitrary nature of the money token, so we can relax our R Complex scarcity psychoses for a bit and a take a deep breath of air outside the hazy vapours of the labyrinthine casino we seem to be lost in.

     
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  22. I like this idea for the most part. One of my concerns was about inflation which did get addressed and most of the tough questions were asked and, whether or not I agreed with him, he didn’t back down or divert the subject so I have respect for that especially on such a difficult topic. Unfortunately I can’t see a way for this to be done with the federal reserve bank calling the shots on the economy and legislation like the tpp being seriously considered for more than two seconds. If you could find a way to do it on a state or local level it could get traction but the federal government would never take this seriously. I mean, the FDA basically said that they know Americans want to know if their food is genetically modified but Fuck the will of the people. I don’t want to be a downer but I don’t see this getting to the floor of any legislative assembly.

     
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  23. Hey Greg – excellent chat (UBI) reckon you nailed it in your summing up – in that the why’s and wherefore’s in this mad bad world of conspiracy and cover-up are grist to the mill to many of us now; but we do need to start to look outward and upward for a new direction (solutions) – therefore can I recommend you to the work of David Graeber – as a study and potential future guest speaker; David really opens up the conversation in and around the origins of debt and transitions seamlessly into the notion of Universal Basic Income (UBI) – I’d suggest this would be a great follow-up to this recent chat (regards) pk

     
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  24. Greg “Communist” Carlwood. Should I even give this one a chance? Greg just can’t let go of his capitalism bashing. Greg, we never had true capitalism, Bubba….

     
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    • Jokes on you. I dislike (the system that has traditionally been called) Capitalism AND Communism.

      It’s a nice trick to change definitions around and I can’t count the number of times I’ve heard “We’ve never had true Capitalism” but that doesn’t really mean anything to me. If every real world application of Capitalism has been exploitative, at some point we have to just consider that part of its definition. Hold on to this hypothetical ideal of “true Capitalism” all you want, but if it can’t be implemented, what good is it?

       
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