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John le Bon | The Hoax Hierarchy, The History Conspiracy, & The Wireframe Mesh

Show Notes

Alright Higherside Chatters, when we dig into the details of many subjects that are generally taken for granted, we find a great deal of manipulation, half truths, and faulty premises in which entire fields are sometimes based- and this goes for an increasingly large chunks of history and science: Materialism, Darwinism, The Apollo Moon Missions, Columbus discovering America, Mass shootings, 9/11, the cover up of exotic technology and alternative fuel sources, genuine medicine, historic time lines, and maybe even some major elements of our Earthly system itself….

Everyone draws their lines differently, but these are just some of the examples we’ve examined in the past that actually encompass huge portions of popular worldviews and to see through even just a few of them – leads one to reflect on not only what else we take for granted that might have been concocted by the Capstone Cabal- but just how powerful and all encompassing are the nefarious few? What kind of world am I in? Are we as blissfully ignorant of our true situation as the cattle grazing on the farm?

Well, when the Big Club goes back longer than we can trace our own family lines, and we’re forced to go through the brainwashing education system that has been cooked up by these very same untrustworthy tyrants- good luck getting it all worked out. As the theme song says, we know they’re lying to us, we just don’t know to what degree- well today we’re blowing the barn doors right off and torching every sacred cow left inside. Because today’s guest John Le Bon pushes the needle firmly into the red, as he tackles some of what seem to be the most controversial and tightly held so called “truths. John is a self described “real skeptic” from Australia, just asking questions about what we take for granted. He runs as well as a popular youtube channel- and I think this is going to be a pretty wild ride.

The controversial questioner, ful-spectrum skeptic, and conspiratorial thunder from down under- JLB.

The Library of Alexandria Story Flowchart: 

If interested in reading more about John’s perspective on this saga, the whole article can be read for free on his site, after registration:

PLUS Content

-The importance of getting sunlight and grounding. What does that say about our environment? -Jon’s thoughts on the work of Anatoli Fomenko. -Catastrophism. -Casting doubt on the Library of Alexandria. -Casting doubt on the existence of Nikola Tesla. -L Frank Baum. -Spiritual sources for technology.
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Oh man, almost 3 and a half hours! I know what I’m doing tonight. Thank you Greg!


I loved the show and especially the tesla stuff but I agree with the majority of this thread that extreme scepticism doesn’t seem to go anywhere. Re tesla: because 95% of everything jlb checks is digital, if they wanted to fabricate a person’s records or erase their records, doing it digitally is an easy way to go about it.
All that said I’m pretty convinced the ufo story is a fabrication so I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find that he’s right about tesla. Also very interesting that whitley strieber wrote a brilliant book called “the key”, in which he has an out of this world discussion with “the master of the key”. I do love whitley so just saying.


where do you suppose one finds the alleged physical records? i’ve been personally trying to find out where any physical documents are in Shoreham New York or elsewhere …for a couple of years now.


the museum project to resurrect Wardenclyffe is also a running joke.

also curious what you found ‘extreme’ thx


What I mean by extreme is that even when you do track down physical records jlb doubts them. Like the original Oxford scholars that found the tablets on a rubbish dump. Unfortunately I know of a famous English art forger who used to do just that. He would slip extra pages into the archives at the Tate of the paintings he’d just forged…very clever! So I know that sounds a bit contradictory but at some point you’ve got to take a stance and say fuck it is believe in something as a starting point, and have a little faith that not everyone is a trickster. Otherwise you end up in nihilism which does no one any favours.


“What I mean by extreme is that even when you do track down physical records jlb doubts them…Unfortunately I know of a famous English art forger who used to do just that. He would slip extra pages into the archives at the Tate of the paintings he’d just forged…very clever! So I know that sounds a bit contradictory ”

a bit? so you know a forger who coopts paintings in a prestigious museum in the United Kingdom..and this is your evidence that ‘physical records’ shouldn’t be questioned? oh boy.

“but at some point you’ve got to take a stance and say fuck it is believe in something as a starting point, and have a little faith that not everyone is a trickster. Otherwise you end up in nihilism which does no one any favours.”

who is looking for favours? certainly not a genuine truth seeker. but if you want to believe in something…by all means believe in it. just don’t be surprised if your foundation-less fantasies get heavily scrutinized.


Please bring him back as this was the best guest you’ve ever had – hands down!


What is it exactly that you’re researching? Sounds like you’re motivated ????


in the context of this exchange, im researching ‘researchers’ and people inside this ‘truth’ community. there are so few of ‘us’ i deem it necessary to defrag broken programs of those scant individuals i have important commonalities with. i welcome your response to my rebuttal above.


3+hours! Big Smile on my face when i saw the time. Well done Greg. I will listen to every second of it. Thank you.


Thought same! Jaw dropped!
Big up!


Woah, can’t wait to listen thanks Greg!


Absolutely love the longer episodes! Too few podcasts still entertain long format shows. Thank you for going above and beyond average. That’s part of what makes THC stand above the rest, much appreciated!


Great episode! Napolean said “History is a lie agreed upon”


I don’t know about this one. JLB seemed to say the same thing over and over for 3 hours. “No primary sources for (x)”… his entire argument and belief system seems to revolve around putting faith in a “primary source”. Take any story from yesterday with primary sources and and you’ll get at least 2 if not more opposing accounts of what happened 24 hrs ago.

I’m earth shape agnostic like you, but his whole skeptic attitude toward every other topic he seems to not apply to the FE debate. Admittedly I haven’t seen any of his stuff but on the show his flight to Australia story seems to be solid proof in his mind as to where his country exists. The flight time multiplied by the airspeed plus the vector is pretty simple math to figure out where you end up. My problem is if JLB believes there are forces and people capable of shrouding history and pulling off real time false flags rituals on a pretty massive scale and keeping majority of the populous hypnotized and blind to reality, then isn’t it possible these same forces have the ability to send a plane in a direction at a speed other than what the little monitor on your inflight screen tells you?

There are tons of jet fuel and airspeed hoax vids on YT. Of course they could all be BS but, but when you sit in a 747 and fly over the ocean at 40k ft (allegedly), can tell if you are going 550mph or 250mph? Or you were flying in a straight line or vectoring exactly in the direction of the intended destination. Over 10 hours the true destination could be thousands of miles off from what they tell us.

My point is, he ain’t flying the plane and the airline industry and corporations are complicit in other big lies so isn’t it possible they are part of that one too… just saying. I really don’t know and I tend not to trust anything, even primary sources.

His take on the Sphinx was pretty laughable. I lean toward thinking there were previous civilizations that were here long long before anybody is telling us. I’ve walked around ruins full of unexplainable rock formations and seemingly ancient dwellings in Crimea that show evidence of massive erosion as well as catastrophic collapse. I’ve seen up close what look like tire or wagon wheel tracks worn over a foot deep into solid rock and other anomalous features. I don’t know how they got there … but I’m open to it all being 3D printed Westworld style or just about anything else except what the experts and academia tell us.

I did enjoy the questioning technology origins and the Tesla stuff. The grounding and sun exposure ideas are dear to my heart as well. JLB is very well spoken and I believe well intentioned. Early 30s is pretty young so I’ll give him a pass for lending so much credence to written accounts of history just because they appear to be supported by primary sources.


After an hour an a half, I thought the same thing. Lots of I don’t knows amd Greg have you ever seen this movie? or read this book? Basically, he answered a question with a question. This his beliefs and opinions. And mentioning his model of research without ever giving any sources or he had a source here or there and long winded answers. I have 89 minutes left on the episode and I don’t plan on finishing it. I thought ” Wow! 3 hours! Yes!” Halfway through i had to stop and think. Does he know anything and can he prove it?!


My thoughts exactly. Admittedly I listened to the majority of it while I kept busy with work, but ended up falling asleep before the end once I got into bed. If I wasn’t otherwise occupied I would have most likely stopped and binned the file.


To start, ill preface by saying i may be projecting some of myself onto the way i interpreted what all he said, as i began by questioninge everything, to the point i threw out everything i was ever taught or thought i knew and re examined everything, so i see a little of myself in alot of what i heard.
I feel i may be alone in this, but i felt listening to him that proving anything was never his point, or goal. We never agree completely with any one person, but i thought his questionimg of everything was refreshing, as it seems most ppl are to eager to answer. I appreciate his questioning of everything while coming to no concrete conclusions. He said he was 31 and has been doing this a little while. Thats about the time alot of us in our lives started questioning things. He is still young and in his search, and while searching, he is documenting. I would say years from now you wpuld see a growth of consistant progression with him as he narrows down what it is he believes. Because i didnt pick up on any set of beliefs he has other than question everything. He of course illuded to some conclusions he has come to, yet seemed open to changing them if he felt he found credible (in his eyes) evidence. So conclusion may not be the right word, but more merely what the info he found to go on seems to insinuate in itself, if you exclude common perceptions and things we are told is true.

A bit of rambling of my own, but i enjoy hearing someone question things intensely. It gives me hope, as too many i see accept everything they are told. I liked it, and will losten a second time after having read these comments to see if i pick up on what everyone else is saying.


I agree, I kept hearing him make excuses for his own lack of education, or how he was tricked by the “man” into firmly believing a given narrative.
He’s in his first Saturn return – but he’s just sowing more doubt and uncertainty into other people by entertaining ludicrous conjecture like the Sphinx was carved and weathered a couple hundred years ago.
He could be a insidious useful idiot – that just throws a big turd of confusion at a fan and watch the shit fly.

He’s barely off the first step of his own self development – stuff we’ve been lead to believe is true is surrounded in lies and deception, (the winners of the war told a bunch of lies to make them look better – wow stop the press that’s mind blowing new info) and got stuck there trying to make him self feel better by just questioning every narrative, a child does that.
There seems to be little else about him. If he can come up with his own solid conclusions then he will be worth air time.


@itsayswithoutgoing Great, well-balanced comment on JLB


I do not fully agree with jlb however. Primary sourcing is important and he does rely quite a bit in questionable easily manipulated technologies by the same Few thst allegedly created or channelled these technologies of virtual Magic/science. .experiential 1st hand is a Primary source of perceived “truth”…not merely pdf sourcing etc which of course is essily manipulated. .great points thc chatter!


One of the most stunning life changing Brilliant shows perspectives…you guys have hit it far out of the ball park into ultra hyperspace. .really…i have listened to so many of your shows for years and much research…revising thinking meditations…..Wow…i will promote this truly enlightening…..whew wtf?? You Rock…YO BRO.. Not everyone can handle this. Lots of triggers. Whoa again. LOVE=Infinity. In my opinion lol


Wow what a challenging chat.. seriously I was so up and down throughout that.
Thinking… Oh boy that’s going to piss people off and then just no friggen way??!!
Then the next minute I was completely in agreement cause that’s exactly how I feel and no one else gets that.
That’s what made that such a good show. Nothing like a boundary shattering nudge to remind us that we have indeed ALL been programmed to believe the stories that make up both modern and ancient or perhaps not so ancient history (His-story)
I just had to check out your website John Le Bon to find out what you found visiting Winton, somewhere I’d defiantly want to check out as a fellow Aussie.


Nothing original from this guy.. bit of a click bait merchant and reusable rhetoric.


Great work Guys. Great approach to research.

Flat earf? Not sure he interviewed real experts in seargent , ha

Watching a rocket hit a firmament , Wernher von bruan, now I’m able to hear anything .. frustrated we have to tip toe around presenting theories. It is the real challenge , sparking mind opening and interest.

I’ve seen the pole stars explained and it doesn’t seem like that flight proves curve, like a space station moon trasit some how proving orbit?

Maybe doesn’t fit the model , probably things that make fake planes look impossible . But the disappearing wings etc. prove a model that seems unbelievable.

I find the same frustration when people don’t know what to say when seeing 100 mile photographs.
Hit me I had been lying to myself about what I saw living on the coast growing up. Realizing opened my mind, learn about perspective visual and spiritual . Also perspective on realms and levels of frequency .

Basically the material science hoax.

Need to be able to reasearch without believing.

Flat and hollow it seems , but can’t do research cuz Antarctic treaty



I love conspiracy, beacuse even if itnisnfa tually incorrect I still find it an important thought exercise to question things and look for deeper truths that may be hidden. That being said if you over apply this view it’s very dangerous. We can’t monitor and explore space when our best minds are arguing if it’s real. Psyops have us arguing that Australia doesn’t exist?
The water hoax the globe hoax the sun hoax. Does the guest think anything in history has naturally happeened or is true?


I have seen coins in the British Museum from Rome and Greece even the dies used and cannot understand how the extreme level of detail and quality was reached without the use of magnification and tools. The coins exist but not tools or records of how they were produced. I am not talking about the beat to crap stuff we see in books the coins in the museum are of a quality that you would think they were made yesterday. There are other small detailed objects that seems impossible to be made that long ago. To defend my point the objects are displayed with the use of powerful magnification just to see the details.


great guest.. absolutely


The long episodes are wonderful. Always look forward to them. I love seeing a guest like JLB bring the truth to the very word it self; belief! Belief is not really knowing if we are honest with our selfs. JLB has obviously gone inward for real answers hence the conversation about the working in him self with the sun. I wish more would challenge themselves on what they claim to be really knowing about in information like JLB. It would be a much healthier “Conspiracy culture”.


Nice one, ma’am or sir as the case may be! You have hit upon the two main points that i keep coming back to, no matter what I’m researching:

First: the nature of belief. Is it necessary because concepts require belief in order to exist. Facts don’t require belief in order to exist, but we ignore facts to our potential peril.

Second: The words over the doorway of the Oracle at Delphi,
‘First, know thyself’. It seems as though those words are meant to turn the seeker away from the Oracle to contemplate themselves and the answers that they seek, or that knowing thyself makes many questions and problems disappear.

A healthier conspiracy culture is a worthy goal. I hope we all get there together. Cheers!


Loved Dark City. Of course this is a different view of the Anatoly Fomenko work, which so makes sense to me. I love the thought of history, but would never bother to learn it, I think because there wasn’t truth behind it compelling me to accept it. So to me, this makes sense on a gut level. I met a Syrian that told me they have history that goes back 10,000 years. This is probably why we want to invade Iraq and Syria, destroy their history. That is what happens with most invasions, destroy the libraries.


While I don’t necessarily disagree with John, I find it difficult to take seriously a guy who chastises the masses for “wasting time clicking on memes” when his website and YouTube channel employ some of the most egregiously spammy and click-bait-y tactics I’ve ever seen in the conspiracy realm. For a guy who preaches objectivity and agnosticism, an awful lot of his videos have the terms “100% TRUE!” or “100% DEBUNKED!” in the title.


Great guest, great show, love the longer interviews, of course I could say that I do not agree 100% with him, but who gives a damn. Very interesting, can’t ask for more.


Over the next few days I plan to return to respond to a few comments here directly, but for now I just wanted to thank Greg for the sensational job he has done with this podcast, and also express my gratitude towards the members of THC who have proven to be more positive and open-minded than I had expected to be the case.

Even those of you who disagree with a large proportion of what I have to say, it speaks volumes about your mindset that you can still listen to a three-hour call without getting emotionally triggered by what you are hearing. My experiences with the YouTube ‘truth’ crowd over the past few years has been very different. Long story short, I am used to people listening to 5% of what I have to say and then shooting from the hip. For some reason I expected that a lot of Greg’s listeners would be similar. So far, the evidence suggests that I misread Greg’s audience. Sometimes it truly is good to be wrong 🙂

So once again, even those of you who think I may be wrong about ‘ancient history’, cosmology, Tesla, or anything else, thank you for at least ‘hearing me out’. It means a lot more to me than you might imagine. The skeptical path can be a lonely path, and after all of the work I have put into my research over the past few years, it is cool to simply be able to share what I have discovered, even if relatively few people ultimately agree with my conclusions/interpretations.

As for the final product, if you have never edited a podcast before, it is perfectly understandable that you might not realise just how much work goes into it. During our call a couple weeks ago, Greg and I had several technical difficulties mid-call. To make matters worse, the house I live in suffers from an inordinate amount of background noise, because I live next to a major road, in an old ‘Queenslander’ house (i.e. thin wooden walls). You wouldn’t know it after listening to the final product. Very well-edited.

Moreover, Greg’s questions were fair and engaging, he had clearly spent time checking out my material prior to the call, and the discussion flowed smoothly. How many interviewers in this scene actually take the time to check out their guest’s work with as much detail as Greg does? I’m not aware of any (although if you have any suggestions, please let me know, because I’m always looking for new material to listen to).

Overall I can’t speak highly enough of my first THC interview.

If you would like me to elaborate on any of what was discussed in the call, I’ll be happy to answer those questions here, or alternatively you can email me at johnlebon123 – at – gmail – dot – com.

In just 24 hours there have already been about two dozen new Free Member registrations on my site, which suggests to me that a lot of people are interested in learning more about why I describe ‘ancient history’ as a Hoax. Note that I have made several of my History Hoax pieces available to Free Members specifically to accommodate the expected traffic from the call. I have very little doubt that anybody who reads those articles for themselves will see that there is something to this.

Why not ‘take a trip out to Tucson’ for yourself and see if ‘ancient history’ really is all a sham? What have you got to lose?

As I said at the top, I’ll return to respond to some of the comments here over the next few days.

Thanks again to Greg and to all of his listeners who were willing to at least hear me out.


Thanks for coming on the show – I had never heard of you before but I enjoyed the discussion. I definitely came to I think a similar conclusion as you in the last few years, in what can be summed up in the following quote by Robert Anton Wilson “I don’t believe anything, but I have many superstitions” – I cannot really prove anything myself, but I have a set of working ideas which are my best understanding at the moment, but I also know that at any time new information may come forth that could change my understanding. Keep up the good work, hope to hear some more from you.


Thank you very much for the kind words, rakarth.

It is interesting to me that you should mention Robert Anton Wilson. I only began seriously looking into his material earlier this year. I finished Cosmic Trigger a couple of months ago. Even though I disagree with a lot of RAW’s opinions and beliefs (e.g. futuristic space travel coming soon), I got a lot out of that book. His general disposition alone is worth engaging with. RAW shares a real zest for life, which I am trying to cultivate for myself.

One of the things in that book which has stayed with me is from the foreword to the reissue by Timothy Leary. He describes RAW as ‘that most recklessly heroic person – a self-employed intellectual’.

Well what is Greg? What is every other independent content creator in this scene, when trying to craft and generate a living for themselves, outside of the standard 9-5? A self-employed intellectual! We are trying to foster and share an intellectual pursuit, an attempt at improving our own thinking patterns and those of the people who consume the content we are putting out into the world.

Another thing which stood out to me was how Leary described RAW as an ‘Intelligence Agent’. When I first got into this scene, I was sucked into the general paranoia which many conspiracy people (especially ‘truthers’ on YouTube) tend to display. I don’t want to name names but I’m sure you know there are content creators out there today still propagating the ‘paid shills’ and ‘evil elite out to get us’ memes. When I was in that mindset, I would have taken Leary’s words as evidence that RAW was working for the bad guys!

Now I see that there is another — and, in my opinion, more sensible — interpretation of Leary’s words. This comment is not the most appropriate place to go into any great detail, but suffice to say that there may indeed be an Intelligence operating under our noses, in plain sight. It may well be that there is, for want of a better term, a ‘force’ at play. And anybody who channels good energy, or good information, is thus acting as an Agent of that Intelligence.

I go into a little more detail about these ideas in the following YouTube video:

Anyhow, I like that RAW quote you posted. It is classic RAW, isn’t it?


Appreciate it John that you seem to be commenting here with a much more civil tone than you used to on Reddit. Since that is the case, I thought it would be fair for me to ask you a few questions about your beliefs that you never actually got around to answering me on reddit.

For one, you flat out stated that Ancient Greece is a hoax. I asked you what first hand, empirical, or any evidence that you might have to back up the claim, and after a few deflecting comments, you simply said Ok, maybe ancient Greece isn’t a hoax, and if I could provide evidence that it isn’t a hoax. Well, that isn’t how logic works. You made the claim, so the onus is on you to back it up with what you asked so dearly of others: evidence. So perhaps in this friendly environment you could provide a listener to the higherside chats with an answer to that question?

I’m also curious, as you have a strong viewpoint on 9/11. Now I certainly don’t believe the official story of what happened during 9/11, but you say with certainty that you do. I’m particularly interested in knowing your claim here:

“So you believe that thousands of people died that day.
How many individuals who supposedly died have you seen evidence for?
I already know the answer, I am trying to help readers think through this one.
We all believe thousands of people died that day, but none of us have verified even 1% of that number.
Why is that?”

I’m fascinated that you would know the answer. So of course I eagerly read along for your follow up. You reply was, again quote, here:

“White Pill: Nobody died, nobody got hurt.

Want evidence? Here you go. ” Does your own youtube video pass as the first hand evidence that you call out for? Genuinely curious because you’ve never responded to that question when asked.

You also claimed the twin towers were mostly empty:

“do we have proof that the top 1/4 of the building was empty?
Have you seen this photo before?”

Again, I’m curious how that photo you linked to suffices as evidence, or perhaps you’re holding on to some ground breaking evidence that you simply care not to share at this point.

I’ve gone back now and noticed that you’ve not been on reddit for a while now, no doubt because of the decline in the quality of posts on reddit, and not because of the growing number of comments questioning your claims. So since it’s such a coincidence that I see you here as a guest of Greg’s, perhaps you’d be willing to address them now? Thanks!

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