Gordon White | Pig/Chimp Hybrids, Directed Panspermia, DNA, & More Human Story Strangeness

Show Notes


Author, researcher and one of my favorite wise wizards, Gordon White, joins THC to drop some knowledge and apply a chaos magicians lens to many of the strange bits of data that man has extracted about life, the human story, and our “highly distracting playpen.”

Check out more Gordon and his chaos magic writings at



PLUS Content

57 Responses

  1. @Hammer If you speak to my personal trainer he will tell you there very much IS such a thing as too much Gordon. But I prefer your opinion. Means more pizza and beer for me.

    @Greg Charming title image. 🙂 You think I can use that as my driver license photo?

      1. So if a Pig and Chimp makes a Pimp, would a Pig and frog make a Prog? or would it be a Frig?

        No wonder the kids are screwed up these days… !

  2. @Gordon As one Aussie to another, the only thing better than self-deprecating British humour is self-deprecating Aussie humour; we do it better, of course!! ;{) Humour and Magick is like pizza and beer; made for each other.
    Good call on the “Jewish Banking Cabal”. No, there are just Banking Cabals, and if you historically don’t let people of that religion own land, where do you think the sharp ones will end up??
    It’s a bit like talking of an Australian Cricket Conspiracy; We have sunshine, space and money. Of course we are alright at equipment based sports.
    By far my favourite show so far; you knocked out Eric Dollard and Simon Parks, which is no mean feat!

  3. @Hammer And it’s not just the property ownership laws. There’s also the confusing rules around Christians not being able to provide loans that charge interest because of Biblical injunctions against ‘usury’… all of which were applied differently in different kingdoms throughout European history. Like so much of the world’s problems, you end up with a situation of unevenly-distributed, poorly-constructed laws and the whims of crowned heads.

    As for the Australian sporting conspiracy, there also wasn’t a whole lot else to do back in the day. 🙂 Consider our first Indigenous world champion tennis player, Evonne Goolagong, growing up hitting a tennis ball against the side of the water tank of her house… over and over and over. Fuck THAT.

  4. @Gordon It’s a case of, ‘God won’t let us do that; it’s unclean. You had better do it…..” and then we will have one more way to cast you as the bad guys!! Trouble is, they are so cohesive, generally, that is has worked thus far. And looking at Israel, it has spurred a few of them on to live up to the hype!
    By the way, I loved the stuff about built in “perception” design flaws in humans, as well as a shitty hybridisation program. Either we are really crap at Darwinism, our designers beer fridge in the workshop was too big, or someone was deliberately fucking with us. A far as conspiracy theories go, this is the only game in town for me; all roads lead back to this.

  5. Great mix of smarts and humour. Levity provides mobility I reckon, in terms of POV.
    Poor Sitchin though – it’s easy to paint an absurd picture and make fun of it – and I understand why. But I believe Sitchin was as guilty as any of us of interpreting through his cultural paradigm. Also, when I look into his theories I’m just trying to get a sense of some of our earliest written records and what world view they convey because, speaking for myself, I didn’t do to well with Cuneiform Chicken Scratching at school. I like the idea of steampunk Annunaki though… I’d send that idea into HBO ASAP if I was you; The Game of Genomes or maybe Breaking Man.

  6. @Q Yeah I retain a lot of respect for Sitchin. He looked at Sumeria and said “this is what I think based on what I’ve been looking at.” Inevitably he was going to be more wrong than right… that is the curse of being first at something. But he shouldn’t be torn down because of it. By the same token, Sumerology has moved on since the 1970s so we also shouldn’t be bound by those first ‘non-traditional’ theories.

      1. Once you’ve got to the end of Vallée’s ‘Dimensions’ and ‘Wonders in the Sky’, I’d say you can read as widely as you like with a minimised risk of ‘tangent-itis’. (I’d include ‘mainstream’ history books in that, of course.)

        Also my book, once I finish the blasted thing. 🙂

    1. I think what gets attacked more than Sitchin himself or his very awesome scifi stories, is the seemingly huge amount of people that glommed onto the Annunaki story as the explanation of everything and will hear nothing contrary. I’ve said before that it really IS some awesome, very powerful story telling, with a lot of deep archetypal elements, but hard to NOT poke a stick at the “Sitchin literalists” (where have I read that before….), if only in a perhaps wasted effort to get those literalist neurons functioning again.

      Gordon, excellent point to recommend Vallee as proof against the weed wanderings that are so easy to get off into, I’d also add Keel. Both give enough time to describing the flat out deceptive and oddball elements/effects being involved with the phenomena, that once you’ve read, and really understand what they are both saying, it’s a lot harder to get sucked into the void. How would one know they really understood what Vallee or Keel had to say? If you get through one of their books without several “Wtf….I need a minute to really get this” moments, go back and read it again, or choose another title =)

  7. Good topic, nice guy too….as for the 6 million number, I have also read, and being a stoner, so can’t remember where, it stems from the Eastern European Jews and their plight over there, the story is from the thirties press or before that and the number just stuck around……namaste…..

  8. Fascinating interview with Gordon and good to cover so many elements all in one show.

    However, I feel I need to comment as a few areas I felt lacked substance, context or verifiable data.

    Flat Earth; this recent re-visitation to the idea of a concept of the earth being flat is so much more than just perspective. The elements of perspective are very interesting, but there are also other, more scientific elements which support Flat Earth, or at least that the Earth is not simply the globe we are sold by NASA and those with vested interested…

    Also, simply dismissing ‘the Jewish Conspiracy’, this element is not so simple. There are weird elements to Jewry is so far that that the core elements are somewhat concerning, such as the blood letting and seemingly close associations with sacrifice and paedophilia. However, this should not be confused with what is essentially Zionism, notably Rothschild Zionism which it has to be said, has hijacked an element of Jewry to either aid or hide its existence. There is substantial evidence to back this up. Agreed, those who dis Jews with racist slurs are indeed exposing their own stupidity – and there is a lot out there. Between the agenda of a bias and failing education system and the sensationalism of today’s mass media, its easy to understand how such inaccuracies and damn right lies are kept alive.

    I very much doubt these events were perpetrated for what we have today, moreover the lies had political motivation for the day and have simply become convenient to keep alive today to suit some agendas…

    Also, the mis-information surrounding the 6 million figure fabricated following the atrocities of World War 2. Setting aside the inevitable emotions to surface with this subject, there is nothing to support anything close to the 6 million figure… mainly that there were not that many Jews living in Germany at the time, and indeed a vast majority (other than the poor) were expatriated to Israel following the Balfour Declaration of 1917. Indeed, verifiable and seemingly impartial assessors such as the International Red Cross paint a very different picture altogether.

    Six Million; just a convenient number and jotted on the back of a napkin. Well, it could of course, but then you need to contextualise it in that the 6 million figure has been used over one hundred times in history prior to WW2.

    The figure is more likely little more than a Kabbalistic prophecy to justify the annexation of Palestine?

    For the permission to return to the Promised Land, God allegedly demanded from them a “6-Million-Holocaust-Offering”, so the high priests interpreted a Torah prophecy that reads: “You shall return” (due to a spelling mistake the priests interpret it this way “You shall return, minus 6 million”)

    This self-imposed prophesy – without fulfilment of this prophesy the return to the Promised Land would not be permitted – led to the 1919 “six-million-prophecy-crash”. Based on the Balfour-Declaration of 1917 the state of Israel was guaranteed, and the Diaspora-Jews would return to the “Promised Land”. The leading Jews at that time expected 1920 a migration of their brethren into “their Land”. But, before the return could take place, “6 million” of them had to disappear, according to the wrongly interpreted prophecy.

    In fact, Jewish organisations proclaimed already in 1919 a “6 million-holocaust”, taking place in the Ukraine: “Six million men and women are dying; eight-hundred-thousand children cry for bread. And this fate is upon them through no fault of their own, through no transgression of the law of God or man; but through the awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for Jewish blood. In this threatened holocaust of human life …” [The American Hebrew, Oct. 31, 1919, Nbr. 582]

    I’m not picking fault in any way and I hope Gordon appreciates this. Moreover, history, our earth and our understanding of it is constantly revising itself as facts appear and are debated. More of this is needed rather than the bland acceptance of what is told, sold or preached in today’s society.

    The explanation of the Pimp (Pig n Chimp) was very interesting and highly plausible, however I can’t shift the image used to advertise the show… Once seen, can never be unseen, and took me back to the South Park episode of the Pig and the Elephant making sweet lurve… and yet, in almost every society, you can see those with a disproportionate slant to either Pig or Chimp which only supports your theory more!!

    Gordon, do you ever do talks in London at all as 2hrs+ just flew by for me and sometimes the spontaneity of the discussion format works well and you are clearly very comfortable doing this…?

    Keep it Greg, another good show… on a roll dude!!

    1. 1900 – Stephen S. Wise, New York Times, June 11, 1900
      “There are 6,000,000 living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favor of Zionism.”

      1904 – Israel Zangwill, New York Times, October 20, 1904
      “The problem does not relate to the American Jews, but to the 6,000,000 in Russia. The Russian Government has consented to allow the Jews to leave,”

      1911 – Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th Edition, Vol. 2, 1911, page 145
      “While there remain in Russia and Rumania over six millions of Jews who are being systematically degraded …”

      These are from a website with 271 documented instances of Jewish-related media using the ‘6 million’.
      These are either 270 coincidences, 6 million anomalies, or a Qabbalah reference “non-initiated” would not understand/take literally.

    2. thank you! I completely agree.. Love Gordon and love having ANY theory challenged, but found the dismissal of a Jewish connection entirely too flippant. Many have spent a lifetime researching the truths of the holocaust for instance, with that recurring 6 million figure being a big clue about a plausible fabrication/editing of history being orchestrated by Jewish owned media, and based on his first comments casually referencing the 6 million number it clearly isn’t something he’s looked into or questioned himself to any great degree. That being the case I would have had more respect for a graceful admission that this isn’t an area of particular expertise rather than to guffaw and shrug off with that “back of a napkin” line. Really? In this world where everything is significant and there are no coincidences, that huge centerpiece of 20th century history just happens to be insignificantly innocently accidentally maybe slightly off by a lot? Sure there are empty villages in Eastern europe. Loads of people died in both world wars.. That was the only “fact” or “statistic” (which he claims such pure reliance upon) that he provided in that whole Jewish discussion, and it hardly proves anything about the Holocaust. I also wasn’t really satisfied with the easy brush off of the idea of generational bloodline aspects of the banking elite. It’s not antisemitic (or laughably absurd) in the slightest to study history and find connections to some Jewish families amongst the elite. We also find connections to all the secret societies and the Jesuits and the Vatican, but no one accuses us of being anti-ivy league or anti-catholic when we point these out.. And that’s suspect.. Tracing the lineages of control back to Jewish bloodlines has nothing to do with probably more than 99% of present day worldwide cultural or religious jews, so to frame this growing understanding of possible string pullers as resurgent antisemitism or just utter silliness seems seriously misguided if not suspiciously manipulative. Researcher Leuren Moret actually traces the Jewish/Jesuit/monarchy connections all the way back to ancient Iranian tribes, so this isn’t anything to do with “jewishness” itself at all. Other than on this topic, Gordon always has some great unexpected perspectives and facts that really expand our thinking and stir us up where we’ve allowed the dust to settle. But the mocking tone and lack of any real evidence or basis to this dismissal of any Jewish connection was very problematic and a bit disturbing.

  9. @gordonwhite Hey brother!(AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE) I am interested in reading more on chaos magic. Would you be able to point me in the right direction RE: reading materials?

    @Carlwood great show brother! I just signed up to THC after listening for a month or two. You are hands down the best interviewer in the ‘conspiracy world’ IMO (I have had subscriptions to RedIce and Coast 2 Coast). You made me seem like a nut on the bus, while I was laughing out loud to your LSD trip story!!

    Keep doing what you do!!


    1. Yes Please. I’m living in Denver now, and we can arrange a Higherside Chatters family picnic. Prime bud for cheap; quality local beers. Is anyone else down for this??

  10. I was ecstatic to hear you guys touch on the flat earth aspect. Interesting perspective. Literally. Ha. It’s good you have a guest like this to help keep an even keel while navigating the waters of conspiracy. I can tell there is a lot of respect between the two of you. Great show Guys.

  11. I enjoyed this episode, especially the first hour. I’m hesitant to speak harshly because Gordon is a listener and has responded to others on this thread. But, I felt that some of Gordon’s opinions were not only contrary to past guest’s, but were outright opposed. I think some of the conversation rebuked Eric DuBay, John Lamb Lash, & Jimmy Jones- all of which were episodes that I felt explored interesting topics. I don’t know why Greg stayed on the WW2/Jewish Banking Conspiracy topic so long with Gordon, unless it was to present an academia-approved storyline.

    Why don’t we call this Jewish banking conspiracy a FreeMasonic banking conspiracy? Like the Qabbalists, Masons have a secret language one must be “in the club” to understand. Masons historically opposed the church, who is to say why but there was a genuine history of the church opposing Usury. Masons aggregate around powerful positions and help each other up in a “it’s more of who you know”-fashion. Do Masons literally control the Finance industry, or figuratively? Why is Scottish rite Freemasonry associated with Zionism? What if, as some researchers are suggesting, all ancient references to “Jews” meant “learned/initiated man” who learned from the Yew tree/Tree of Life?

    What I’m saying is that there is a big club, and as Carlin said, “You’re not in it!” Whether it’s Jewish bankers, or Zionist Qabbalists, or simply the wealthy elite- these people do not relate to commoners & likely look at everyone below their status level as “second-class”. There is such a thing as Talmudic Judaism which emphasize the great difference between a jew and a goy. And there is just typical, everyday xenophilia/racism which basically thinks your own group is superior to “the other types”.

    And why does History kneel before Israel whose entire history is murder, land grabbing, & open-air imprisonment of it’s fellow countrymen? Were not the Japanese internment camps in the US a tragedy? What about the gulags in Russia and the bloody, violent revolution there that was civil war? Why are Jews History’s biggest victim and why were they awarded a country to torture/rape considering there was no consent?

    It’s offensive to parrot official dogma on this subject, and it maybe should not have been discussed this episode.

    1. To be fair, Israel could only lay claim to this history because of U.K.( limited because they were and still are completely broke!! 🙂 ) and then USA backing.
      Running a well set up labour camp in wartime, and by well set up, I mean murderous, will put paid to most of the detainees in a short time frame. Starting with the British/Australian ones in South Africa in the Boer War and then continuing on down through the century. Mistreatment, torture etc does not recognise colour or race, it just uses them as tool. If the bloke at the top being a bastard is Jewish, well bully for him, but it’s just as likely he will be a Christian( like countless European oppressors from Rome on) a pagan( like Rome pre Christian) a Buddhist, a Confucian, a Shintoist……….. and odds on it really won’t matter; he will still be a bastard, just like the rest of them have been.

      Focus on murderous bastards, not what flavour they are!

      1. Further to this, if we are swine/bonobo hybrids who’s main interests are eating and fucking, and psychopaths are anomalies distributed amongst all races/religions evenly,(yes!) then it is a two pronged solution:

        1. Work out what societies reward psychopathic behaviour,(Confucianism, Western Industrial Capitalism) and get the fuck away from them, or hack them from the inside to limit the psychopaths damage to you and your area.

        2. Get a background in magick( or magickal thinking at the very least) so that you can get an understanding of what outside influences might be fucking with you/empowering psychopaths around you and work out how to limit them, shut them down or, fuck back!!
        This is my personal “Doomsday prep”, and I am knee deep in it as we speak.

        Psychopaths feed on anger like ancestral spirits feed on sugar and humans feed on love. Turn yourself into a lovebomb, and blow some shit up…. 😉

    2. @Kyle Prindiville @Hammer – word up on both sides of the discussion, something definitely stinks, nuance and cunning is definitely necessary to clean out our wounds and move forward as a whole species

  12. I have to say its obvious to me at least that the Pig is a hybrid between a boar and a Human. That’s common knowledge among certain conspiracy researchers.

  13. Bloodlines.
    From 127 minutes on.
    From Greg:”…So how do we add the ruling elite to this saga?”
    “Um ,my approach is to, again kind of look at what genetics and blood actually do, which frankly, isn’t that much.
    Um, so, what you see instead is a process leading up to, say, 1880, there was just this kind of very tribal idea that certain blood was better than others, and that’s why they, um, you know – the royals married their cousins, and all that kind of stuff. And there wasn’t any science behind that stuff, that’s Tribal. You can kind of, pretty much archeologically date, um, that idea, so sort of the emergence of agriculture – between 9000 – 9500bc, you get people thinking…, ’cause otherwise – whats the justification of having a *unknown*…well my blood is more magical. Um, alright, so we have that persistence of the idea in the kind of central-European eugenics and um, blood transfusion stuff that was happening during the Vimar Republic, and obviously in the west as well, and then through Nazism and out the other end, and they thought there was potentially a way to science their belief, that this in fact was correct….”

    This went on.
    I have to go thumbs-down this time. A lot of supposition, no details or citations, and a bit dismissive, yet he speaks with certainty. Like a really good two hour conversation sitting at a bar over a pint, only this time the conversation cost extra.
    Don’t get me wrong, I’d have bought him a pint myself and dug further on something, anything. But I feel like I did after watching Guardians of the Galaxy: Cool and all, but I don’t much remember anything about it after leaving the theater…

    The Binobo(sp)-x-Swine possibility perked my interest, but it seemed to get brushed over, I’d have been happy with something, anything more on that. Just seemed to bounce from point & topic like a tumbleweed, never really leaving a mark.
    Not saying he’s crap or anything,seems like a cool guy I plan to check him out further to see what he has to offer, but I fail to see the excitement so far.

    1. If you are chasing citations or details, perhaps check out his blog, which is reference/link heavy, and you would have needed another hour to mention them all. Nearly all of the stuff touched on in this interview can be found in his blog.
      If you chase all his citing links when you read his blog, 1 post can take hours.

    2. My favorite part of Guardians of the Galaxy was the shirtless guy who couldn’t understand symbols/euphemisms/gestures.
      Makes for some funny interactions like when they say something “went over his head” and he replies, “Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are too quick”. A civilization that can’t understand symbols is an interesting thought experiment.

    3. I would recommend giving this one another listen, some of the guests and the topics they cover are just too much to really take in and understand the first time around. In this case, I don’t suggest this to try and “bring you around” to agreeing with everything said, I would just about guarantee you’d get more out of it all around.

  14. Love your shows! yours and ‘Red ice radio’ are my top 2.
    I felt two topics, namely ‘Flat earth’ and ‘Holocaust denial’ were tossed out as silly theories without anything really justified to toss them out. Things that make you go hmmmm 1.Flat earth: Flat or spherical? I do not know but if spherical, why is there so little proof to prove the theory? especially when the best way to prove or disprove it by means of exploring the Antarctic properly has been made impossible . 2. Jewish problem: IF the problem is not a Jewish or Zionist problem then why are we not permitted to question related issues ie the ‘Holocaust’ or the ‘white European genocide’ without being branded anti-Semitic or a Nazi racist ,with regard to the ‘white European genocide’ theory how far do we have to allow it to go on (under the banner of multiculturalism) before there is no way to recover? suggested guests: Kyle Hunt, Tom Goodrich.

  15. We can’t talk about Jews or question anything they say because according to that great mind, Noam Chomsky:

    “… [T]he Holocaust was the most extreme atrocity in human history, and we lose our humanity if we are even willing to enter the arena of debate with those who seek to deny or underplay Nazi crimes.”

    We can all trust Noam Chomsky because he is a Jew and therefore has a very great mind and he would never lie to us.

  16. the earth is flat, wake up gordon!
    you too greg, where is the proof of a globe, really getting interested in it now.
    loved interview with outlaw jimmy.

  17. Fascinating stuff, excellent speaker. I disagree with his general viewpoint on all of the Zio / Jewish stuff though. Great show though and would definitely like to hear him again!

  18. Great show Greg and Gordon. Gordon,I have your website bookmarked. I like a lot of what you were able to ‘debunk’. Certain things ring bells.

  19. Question for Gordon:

    If YHWH is the gnostic demiurge, what are the implications for people doing the Golden Dawn pentagram rituals, since they invoke it in 4 directions?

  20. Not feeling this at all. It seems like he is an apologist, uses obfuscation and limited hangout and focus on a marginal part of a discussion to discredit the whole idea as simplification consistently. No discussion of Zionism vs “Jewish”, really? What idiot is saying all jews are the problems with all banking, created 911 and fractional reserve banking just saying the Zionists have a big role in all that. Very disappointing discussion of Saturn, poo poohs everything of import, it seems. Comments on 911 very questionable as well. Said ancients did not focus on planet, well dang, didn’t they deify them? Jeez. That seems like a focus to me. Just consistently disappointing.

  21. loved ur bus story, greg …. i did my share of lsd back in the 70’s … and i do think the most valuable thing i got from it was the knowledge that there are many realities and it all depends on perception, with an accent on vibes/frequencies … i am a no. cal native and am away from there now, but just the mention of big sur and an acid trip got me all nostalgic and sniffley …… so glad i subscribed, ur such a fine man – u have become a benchmark for me, against which all others are compared … carry on … and …. peace

  22. Just not buying much of what this guy is saying. Humans were created and yes it was aliens! You just need to watch Lloyd Pye. Or watch William brown on the genetic evidence of how humans were made.

    And the Saturn polar configuration has more evidence than you can shake a stick at.

    And he’s got the pig chimp thing the wrong way round. He doesn’t mention the boar?! Humans are not too piggy. Pigs are too humany!

  23. and the bit about “terra preta”…. it’s not really “terra forming”, that’s over doing it

    it’s just charcoal mixed in with the soil – allows microbes in the soil to get more air and living space, that’s my theory!

  24. Italians started fractional reserve banking?
    Protocols of the Elders of Zion was disinfo by “Russian secret police”.

    I’m not going to even bother listing the other points of bullshit as there are just too many.

    Those are all you need.

  25. I only found the Higherside Chats a few weeks ago but I’ve binge-listened like crazy. Gordon White is hands down the strongest guest I’ve heard so far. He’s hyper-informed w/out sounding hyper-intellectual; presents strong cases without sounding opinionated; and I swear I can hear that he’s smiling while he talks. More Gordo! Thanks for the great plus shows – Scott

Leave a Reply