Great info^, I'm also leaning towards the idea that the fake moon mission, fake space/iss, flat earth etc, is all a clever psyop in itself to hide space. It makes sense from a national/global security standpoint. If you have space technology you can't freely share information and footage with the world. Whoever has control of space has control of the planet. I think footage is purposely faked and the conspiracies are laid out by the government to steer the masses and alternative reasearchers ina direction. Has anyone researched the actual origin of the faked moon landing conspiracy? Who started it? That's the question.
Tying in a post from another thread, take a look at @humanetar debunking one of Eric Dubay's videos on the recent SpaceX Roadstar launch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm7S8aXQJ4I
https://www.thehighersidechatsplus.com/forums/threads/flat-earth-theory-eric-dubay.540/page-4#post-8923
matrixshifter wrote: Great info^, I'm also leaning towards the idea that the fake moon mission, fake space/iss, flat earth etc, is all a clever psyop in itself to hide space. It makes sense from a national/global security standpoint. If you have space technology you can't freely share information and footage with the world. Whoever has control of space has control of the planet. I think footage is purposely faked and the conspiracies are laid out by the government to steer the masses and alternative reasearchers ina direction. Has anyone researched the actual origin of the faked moon landing conspiracy? Who started it? That's the question.
For the longest time, the moon landing hoax conspiracy theory was one too far... I didn't even want to look into it and and I viewed it about like I view the flat earth - as a psyop to sucker in conspiracy theorists and then attach a pejorative label to them.
It was only when someone on the Skeptiko forum 2-3 years ago started a thread on Dave McGowan's essays "Wag the Moondoggie" ( http://www.whale.to/c/Dave McGowan - Wagging The Moon Doggie.pdf ) that I became open to the idea and now lean heavily towards some or all of it being faked.
http://www.skeptiko-forum.com/threads/wagging-the-moondoggie.2326/
Obviously he wasn't the first to propose that it was fake... one of my old relatives who watched it live on TV always maintained it was fake... but McGowan's essays were the first that I came across as presenting a good case.
I haven't really researched/debated it much since that Skeptiko thread, but as I recall the main things that swayed me were:
1) NASA says it LOST all the original data from the missions - all telemetry data, video recordings, even the plans for the Saturn V - all gone. All we have now is some of the recordings of the recordings.
2) we haven't been back since. With our present technology so much more advanced it seems like it wouldn't be that difficult now to go back if we could do it then using vacuum tubes.
3) Several trips to Antarctica were made prior to the missions to collect meteorites from the moon. Now it is reasonable they would want to do this to be prepared for the lunar surface, but then we no longer know whether the rocks collected were actually just what they found in Antarctica... and one supposed moon rock given as a gift to another nation turned out to be petrified wood.
4) MANY videos show the astronauts being yanked upwards and knocked off balance during moon walks. They were clearly suspended by cables to simulate low G. There is also evidence of varying frame rates. Only in one video do the astronauts make high jumps and in that video the astronauts head and legs are obstructed from view.
5) There is a video of an astronaut throwing a hammer back in the LEM and it makes a banging sound even though sound can't travel through space.
6) The astronauts looked and sounded so dejected in their press-conferences after returning.
7) The ability to hover/land a rocket is something we have only recently perfected (see recent Spacex Falcon9 booster landings) and it requires computer control. Human pilots can't run their mental feedback-loops fast enough to do it.
Anyway... didn't mean to threadjack into the moon landing hoax, but there is actually a lot of meat there and I would definitely not classify it in the same category as the FE.
Would be nice if the USA could admit we haven't put a man on the moon yet as that might generate renewed interest in going there... but what would our guy say when he takes the actual first step? "One small step... for REALS this time you guys! I swear!" We'd have to get independent third parties with telescopes to verify otherwise no one would believe us.
There's so much evidence for it all being faked, and on the flip side there could be a Secret Space Program. But that just seems too fantastical, and there seems to be so many scam artists and disinfo re guarding SSP
Okay, so we know these Nazi Paperclip guys went to Antarctica right before "going to the moon," so they clearly had other things on their minds. In context, the "moon landing" is the best Big Lie in history, but after convincing everyone that World War II was all about racial hate, they figured this moon thing was a walk in the park. The sorcerers who confused the world for at least two giant world wars were then imported to America where they could continue their experiment in farming people. This time they would give them the moon. As D. McGowan's piece points out, this poorly-filmed charade was supposedly pulled off with 0.004% of the fuel that the creator of the rockets said would be necessary to complete such a trip. To fully convince the entire American public and the world that this was possible - nay, that it occurred! - they used every trick in the book: drugs, hypnotism, mind-control trauma. Television was rolled out with relentless haste, followed hard upon by the psychedelic revolution (which we now know has some very dubious beginnings), and then to traumatize the entire nation you have the JFK assassination which STILL gets talked about as a major emotional trauma, along with a slew of other assassinations and the Vietnam War and the Manson murders. The mass media coverage of all of these events was the perfect execution of the techniques of mass-populous-trauma-based-mind-control that was honed and sharpened in the global media of WWII. With everyone so bummed out about carnage and violence AND super-high on talking-with-god doses of LSD, walking on the moon was the simplest thing to believe. Especially after they recorded so many rock songs about it.
But why would they be so emboldened as to think they could create such a monumental lie about something so universally common as the MOON? Didn't they think that somebody else would get there eventually and figure out that they were fibbing?
Or do you think that they just took Wernher Van Braun at his word when he said reaching the moon was a technical impossibility?
Or do you think that they knew something we don't know?
Just these considerations make me wonder about the model of the universe we live in. I'm not saying we live on an infinite flat plane, but maybe it's not a globe. If the Flat Earth thing is all a psy-op, then just what are they trying to hide? Because I have to come clean: Flat Earth was my big ticket down the rabbit hole. After I started looking into that, I found all the other conspiracies and it shattered all my paradigms. (I mean, Laurel Canyon, for Pete's sake!) So now it doesn't matter if the earth is flat or not, because my entire worldview is shifted; the spell is broken because I can see so much of the bullshit at face value. If this was an acceptable side-effect of a psy-op, what the hell are they hiding?!
Well, I think a lot of us here understand what they are hiding is that the Universe we inhabit is built of Consciousness.
If that's true, why can't it be flat and round, and dimensionless and a straight line and eleven dimensions all at once, depending on which part of Consciousness you viewed it from?
Maybe nobody goes over 400 miles above the planet because past there you just leave this dimension. That would make sense to me.
snapturtle wrote: Okay, so we know these Nazi Paperclip guys went to Antarctica right before "going to the moon," so they clearly had other things on their minds. In context, the "moon landing" is the best Big Lie in history, but after convincing everyone that World War II was all about racial hate, they figured this moon thing was a walk in the park. The sorcerers who confused the world for at least two giant world wars were then imported to America where they could continue their experiment in farming people. This time they would give them the moon. As D. McGowan's piece points out, this poorly-filmed charade was supposedly pulled off with 0.004% of the fuel that the creator of the rockets said would be necessary to complete such a trip. To fully convince the entire American public and the world that this was possible - nay, that it occurred! - they used every trick in the book: drugs, hypnotism, mind-control trauma. Television was rolled out with relentless haste, followed hard upon by the psychedelic revolution (which we now know has some very dubious beginnings), and then to traumatize the entire nation you have the JFK assassination which STILL gets talked about as a major emotional trauma, along with a slew of other assassinations and the Vietnam War and the Manson murders. The mass media coverage of all of these events was the perfect execution of the techniques of mass-populous-trauma-based-mind-control that was honed and sharpened in the global media of WWII. With everyone so bummed out about carnage and violence AND super-high on talking-with-god doses of LSD, walking on the moon was the simplest thing to believe. Especially after they recorded so many rock songs about it.
But why would they be so emboldened as to think they could create such a monumental lie about something so universally common as the MOON? Didn't they think that somebody else would get there eventually and figure out that they were fibbing?
Or do you think that they just took Wernher Van Braun at his word when he said reaching the moon was a technical impossibility?
Or do you think that they knew something we don't know?Just these considerations make me wonder about the model of the universe we live in. I'm not saying we live on an infinite flat plane, but maybe it's not a globe. If the Flat Earth thing is all a psy-op, then just what are they trying to hide? Because I have to come clean: Flat Earth was my big ticket down the rabbit hole. After I started looking into that, I found all the other conspiracies and it shattered all my paradigms. (I mean, Laurel Canyon, for Pete's sake!) So now it doesn't matter if the earth is flat or not, because my entire worldview is shifted; the spell is broken because I can see so much of the bullshit at face value. If this was an acceptable side-effect of a psy-op, what the hell are they hiding?!
Well, I think a lot of us here understand what they are hiding is that the Universe we inhabit is built of Consciousness.
If that's true, why can't it be flat and round, and dimensionless and a straight line and eleven dimensions all at once, depending on which part of Consciousness you viewed it from?
Maybe nobody goes over 400 miles above the planet because past there you just leave this dimension. That would make sense to me.
I value Dr J P Farrell's research and analysis. To paraphrase his hypothesis.
The Nazi's invented Anti grav tech in WW2, see his stuff on the Nazi Bell. With Paperclip etc the USA had their hands on the stuff and had developed usable craft. Kennedy was aware of this and made a public statement about going to the moon in the hope that the anti-grav tech they were hiding would be forced into the open. sidenote:- Roswell was a Nazi international anti-grav craft aliens was the controlled opposition cover story.
We did go to the moon but in a Anti-grav black op craft but what was publically shown was a studio production to keep the anti -grav tech under wraps & ensure the mission was perceived as a success even if they crashed on the moon and never came back.
Flat earth is only possible if the flat plane is inside a larger sphere/planet, so the questionis, is it inside the earth or inside something like Saturn OR it is completely a holographic computer model, either way staying in 1 rabbit hole and proselyting about it shows you have bought the constructed lie laid out for you.
I think the issue is to have your own sense of truth that you have decided upon the balance of probabilities test once you've gathered sufficient evidence to tip your own inner scales of truth. and always be open to adding more weight on either side as it discovered.
snapturtle wrote: Okay, so we know these Nazi Paperclip guys went to Antarctica right before "going to the moon," so they clearly had other things on their minds. In context, the "moon landing" is the best Big Lie in history, but after convincing everyone that World War II was all about racial hate, they figured this moon thing was a walk in the park. The sorcerers who confused the world for at least two giant world wars were then imported to America where they could continue their experiment in farming people. This time they would give them the moon. As D. McGowan's piece points out, this poorly-filmed charade was supposedly pulled off with 0.004% of the fuel that the creator of the rockets said would be necessary to complete such a trip. To fully convince the entire American public and the world that this was possible - nay, that it occurred! - they used every trick in the book: drugs, hypnotism, mind-control trauma. Television was rolled out with relentless haste, followed hard upon by the psychedelic revolution (which we now know has some very dubious beginnings), and then to traumatize the entire nation you have the JFK assassination which STILL gets talked about as a major emotional trauma, along with a slew of other assassinations and the Vietnam War and the Manson murders. The mass media coverage of all of these events was the perfect execution of the techniques of mass-populous-trauma-based-mind-control that was honed and sharpened in the global media of WWII. With everyone so bummed out about carnage and violence AND super-high on talking-with-god doses of LSD, walking on the moon was the simplest thing to believe. Especially after they recorded so many rock songs about it.
But why would they be so emboldened as to think they could create such a monumental lie about something so universally common as the MOON? Didn't they think that somebody else would get there eventually and figure out that they were fibbing?
Or do you think that they just took Wernher Van Braun at his word when he said reaching the moon was a technical impossibility?
Or do you think that they knew something we don't know?Just these considerations make me wonder about the model of the universe we live in. I'm not saying we live on an infinite flat plane, but maybe it's not a globe. If the Flat Earth thing is all a psy-op, then just what are they trying to hide? Because I have to come clean: Flat Earth was my big ticket down the rabbit hole. After I started looking into that, I found all the other conspiracies and it shattered all my paradigms. (I mean, Laurel Canyon, for Pete's sake!) So now it doesn't matter if the earth is flat or not, because my entire worldview is shifted; the spell is broken because I can see so much of the bullshit at face value. If this was an acceptable side-effect of a psy-op, what the hell are they hiding?!
Well, I think a lot of us here understand what they are hiding is that the Universe we inhabit is built of Consciousness.
If that's true, why can't it be flat and round, and dimensionless and a straight line and eleven dimensions all at once, depending on which part of Consciousness you viewed it from?
Maybe nobody goes over 400 miles above the planet because past there you just leave this dimension. That would make sense to me.
I value Dr J P Farrell's research and analysis. To paraphrase his hypothesis.
The Nazi's invented Anti grav tech in WW2, see his stuff on the Nazi Bell. With Paperclip etc the USA had their hands on the stuff and had developed usable craft. Kennedy was aware of this and made a public statement about going to the moon in the hope that the anti-grav tech they were hiding would be forced into the open. sidenote:- Roswell was a Nazi international anti-grav craft aliens was the controlled opposition cover story.
We did go to the moon but in a Anti-grav black op craft but what was publically shown was a studio production to keep the anti -grav tech under wraps & ensure the mission was perceived as a success even if they crashed on the moon and never came back.
Flat earth is only possible if the flat plane is inside a larger sphere/planet, so the questionis, is it inside the earth or inside something like Saturn OR it is completely a holographic computer model, either way staying in 1 rabbit hole and proselyting about it shows you have bought the constructed lie laid out for you.
I think the issue is to have your own sense of truth that you have decided upon the balance of probabilities test once you've gathered sufficient evidence to tip your own inner scales of truth. and always be open to adding more weight on either side as it discovered.
Mad Mike finally launched his rocket and went up less than 2000 ft. While Mike has landed safely, how that was supposed to be anything other than a stunt remains up in the air.
I don't know what the the shape of the earth is, and I think there is a halfway point with all of this. There is an infiltration and push with flat earth in the media, and controlled opposition has taken control of that narrative, but why? And why does "fake space" have to lumped in with flat earth, why cant that be its own conspiracy? I find all of that fascinating as well, but every video and researcher seems to be tied with flat earth, which I find odd.
Another thought to ponder. How come we never hear about Virgin Galactic? It started around the same time of Space X back in the 2000s, but it has apparently been a huge failure in not even being able to go to space. It seems Space X was chosen to replace NASA, and Virgin was left in the dust.
The flat earth seems to drag a lot of people down the rabbit hole, which is good. Unless that’s all part of the plan.
FE gets more derision and aggression than any other topic out there. Even conspiracy theorists who lap up 911, JFK and the moon hoax are prepared to sneer and heap derision on discussion regarding FE.
To me that creates more reason the query the official narrative. Why go to such a great extent to counter it with Space X and all the other crap spewing forth from the controlled media.
There’s too much smoke for there not to be some fire, whatever that may be. There’s a complete lack of independent input outside what is government controlled. It’s no different to Antartica, which has a complete government monopoly.
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.
I feel the reason for the subterfuge about the shape of our environment is related to our proprioception, our understanding of where things are.
When your friendly constable insists you “close your eyes and touch your nose”. You can do this because of your understanding of your location in space. Your hand/nose locations specifically.
Extending from that, where your butt is in your recliner in relationship to the beer in the fridge is important if you want to replenish your drink instead of going on a prolonged walkabout.
Beyond that we have our place in the larger environment. Experienced outdoors-men have become lost, and do the total opposite of the right thing by forging ahead, despite the environment telling them to turn around or stop, and are often found miles from where they left the trail. All because their mental map does not match their environment.
We know that our perception (time) of the seasons is skewed due to calendar changes, shifted equinox dates, daylight savings time, shifting holidays. Even though we are told exactly when an eclipse will happen.
But hey, its just the sum of our understanding of space/time and where we fit into it.
What if, like a circus elephant we have been trained to plant our own stake and believe we are chained to it?
What if, we have the powers of a Dr Manhattan locked away by the manipulation of our minds and bodies?
What if, we are just people. Not super heroes. Just people kept off balance by the obscuring of the most basic of truths about our environment. Never to be completely stable or comfortable.
On purpose.
Just so we ignore the man behind the curtain.
Or superpowers, I want superpowers.
chukobyte wrote: @metalegs The mountain the picture is taken from elevation is 1.75 miles and the mountain in the center of the picture (at 443 km) elevation is 2.5 miles. Are there any other variables we need for an accurate calculation?
I find that B.O.B's gofundme campaign is strange. At first he was asking for $200,000, then he elevated it to one million! The money is going to go towards weather balloons and "research"...
https://www.gofundme.com/showBoBthecurveMaybe a better case to put forward would be how are people using the flat earth to make money...
$1 million for a weather balloon... hmmm maybe I need to pretend to be a flat-earther for a while... beats an honest living.
The calculation for drop below the horizon is straightforward. The variable that is difficult to predict is air density. If you've looked across the hood of a hot car or a road on a hot day you can see that the path of light can be bent significantly in only a short distance due to temperature variation (which varies the density which varies the speed light travels which causes it to bend). So imagine light traveling 20 miles or more across hot and cold spots. Water currents, time of day, weather, etc... all can change temp and density of the air.
metalegs wrote: I
Beyond that we have our place in the larger environment. Experienced outdoors-men have become lost, and do the total opposite of the right thing by forging ahead, despite the environment telling them to turn around or stop, and are often found miles from where they left the trail. All because their mental map does not match their environment..
I know this isn't really the thrust of this thread, but I have made similar comments. There seems to be two schools of wilderness/outdoors knowledge: military and indigenous. The military survival mindset is the one you speak of and comes from the training philosophy. In the military the survival of the person in the survival situation is secondary to the survival of the mission which often requires taking otherwise unnecessary risks. I tend to think of the military mindset as one of the mission vs extraction philosophy - you are surviviing long enough for completing your mission or being extracted out of the wilderness because long-term survival is not typically the point and being cut off from the larger group in a military situation means that survival is unlikely due to the risk to one's security. The indigenous philosophy is more about making one at home in the wilderness for as long as you are there and leveraging your surroundings to accomplish that goal.
I have a rule of thumb for survival show hosts called the puke scale: The more often someone throws up because they ate something they shouldn't have the higher the score. The top of the puke scale tends to be inhabited by those who have a background in the military - especially Bear Grylls. At the bottom I've found more indigenous minded outdoorsmen like Cody Lundin and Ray Mears.
Bear Grylls demonstrating how to nearly die several times over while "surviving":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbFX4GSX2UI
Ray Mears making survival look easy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKGd-zO-Uyk
Why is it to much to ask for a actual picture of the earth. Is it to much to ask for reproducible evidence of curvature with optics and not theoretical math? Before somebody says "Isee see curve when I'm in a jet plane" think about the horizon. Does it drop off? is the curve you see from the rounded window? When our basic senses and easily reproducible tests scream to us that the earth is not a spinning ball why are we discussing flat earth as a psyop? We should talk about the earth we've been presented as a psyop. Why do "They" want us to believe our whole world is something its not? Who is doing it? What does this revelation mean? Pfft pfftt. Ear man
