Dr. Diana Pasulka | American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, & Technology

Show Notes


Diana Walsh Pasulka is a Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina, Wilmington and Chair of the Department of Philosophy and Religion. Her research focuses on religion and technology, including supernatural belief and its connections to digital technologies and environments.

She is author of American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology with Oxford University Press. THC listeners can get 30% off the book by using the code AAFLYG6 on the Oxford University Press Website.


PLUS Content

-The Vatican’s huge head start compared to Silicon Valley & The CIA’s paranormal research. -How the spikes in major UFO sightings suggests a “pattern of reinforcement.” -Dr. Pasulka’s thoughts on the occult and the Aliens/Spirit overlap. -Famous religious relics as lost technology. -Technologies we have today that might relate to previously found ET technology. -Reinterpreting the stigmata with modern knowledge.

33 Responses

  1. Regarding Dr. Pasulka’s meetings with brilliant billionaire scientists in search of weird alien artifacts, I do wonder whether what we’re hearing is not in part a replay of the Tom DeLonge thing for a more “highbrow” audience — the kind of audience that might be regarded as receptive to appeals to academic authority. That said, Dr. Pasulka seems to recognize this (as she says, she wondered whether doors were not being opened to her too quickly), and if the alien stories she’s being indoctrinated in are just mythopoetic anyway, then the fact that these desert encounters might have been staged for her are just another piece of the puzzle. Great stuff so far, I might check out her book.

    1. Yes, I had those same thoughts. I asked her about it a little, but I think she’s pretty genuine about her story and experiences.

      In the wrap up, I tried to walk the fine line between suggesting the possibilities you bring up and being respectful to the guest. I think we’re all adults and can decide for ourselves and like you said, even if this is some bigger thing, that’s interesting in it’s own right.

      1. Yea. Didn’t mean to step on your wrap up comments, I just got excited about the alien artifacts and jumped in to comment before I’d gotten all the way through. I found this guest extremely charming. That combination of wholesome “gee-whiz” attitude and effortless erudition is catnip to me — and to many other listeners too, I imagine. And it kind of made me wonder whether I was being conned a little. Dr. Pasulka reminds me of one of David Lynch’s plucky Nancy Drewish characters, or one of those theologian types that gets included in sci-fi adventures like “Prometheus,” to highlight the “conflict between science or religion,” or whatever. Anyway, assuming her story is legit, I’ve spent a bit of time around academics, and despite their learning, sometimes they can be a little naive. That’s one of the charming things about them! I have to say, I am a new subscriber and this show is rocking my world. I love the vibe of the interviews, and they give me so much to think about every week! Thanks.

    2. I got the audio book and although the narrator is a little robotic, it’s a brilliant book. On a par with Majestic by the legendary Whitley Strieber, but with a modern twist. X-files 2.0 🙂

  2. Pasulka’s American Cosmic is one of the finest and original books ever written on the subject of UFOs (and tied with Eric Wargo’s Time Loops as the best book written in the last year that falls under the Higherside Chats tent of subjects). It may be my favorite UFO book of all time. It is not overly technical and has plenty of variety in its characters and subjects. Thank you, Greg, for having her on. I would wager a guess she is the first guest published on Oxford University Press. Congrats on that — you have hit the peak of academia. This is a very good interview and does an excellent job of squeezing out some of the most important points of the book. Greg does a great job at showing how technology really plays a role in informing a budding and far-reaching religiosity (including religious fervor) around the subject of UFOs. We hear about the formation of belief communities, and how all kinds of different forces help shape the experience that is UFO/alien contact. I may write more thoughts later but thought I would let others say something first.

    If you like Jacques Vallee, you will fall in love with this book. I think years from now, Pasulka will be considered the one figure, perhaps over all others, that did the most to create inroads into making UFOlogy a respectable field of study. I suppose that is a good thing and a bad thing, depending on your take. I think it is great.

    For those who want more than just Greg’s great interview, one should also check out recent interviews on Mysterious Universe and Rune Soup.

    P.S. I was literally finishing the conclusion of her book when this interview first came online.

  3. Interesting how she explains how she ‘felt’ while being at the Vatican. In a recent subscriber only interview (so don’t want to say too much out of respect for her information and work), another well know woman/researcher Truth Seeker, explained how she was extremely uncomfortable when just visiting the Vatican. Not even going into the depths the guest had. She said that she could not wait to leave there as she felt a sense of evil almost, or just a darkness and discomfort not felt in most places. Very strange indeed. Also another interview on JBWells Caravan members area just had a guest on named Charles Wilcox, wrote a book: “Lincoln and his fight against the Jesuits and Pius IX” who does not express a positive perspective on the Vatican, mainly the Jesuit branch of the Catholic Church. This is the first I’ve heard of the guest, and her academic page states her
    I went to the guests website, and saw a few other books that look interesting but can not purchase anywhere for a reasonable price. Are they available anywhere?

  4. Not to go all Skeptiko on everyone, but one big takeaway/question (okay it turns into a few — I like to have fun) I have from the book and the interview is this: Is there some sort of multi-faceted programming going on (am I already falling into the trap with my choice of wording?) in which we are to move away from the Cartesian dualism type of thinking, and into that which involves the world of associations and search engines?

    In other words, are we being groomed into machine-type thinking in much deeper ways than we originally thought? Are UFOs, New Age thought, Progress, Futurism (and 8 billion psychological tricks) all pushing us towards this supposed inevitability of Mind-Machine merger (with 5G as out current collective circuitry)? Is that the end goal? Is it profits? Control? Distraction? How do we stop the flooding of our vulnerable subconscious with these various types of programming, some intentional and some not? And WHO is doing it? Is this WHO many different WHOs? Etc., etc. etc. (And what the hell is going on in that damn “room” from the book? Is that the Who? Is that Who alien or human-created? Was it created?).

    And if you really want to get paranoid — is this just some kind of simulation? Is the simulation organic or pre-written? Are UFOs simply candlelights for the moths to make sure the writing stays in focus and the script does not deviate? And if we really really want to get paranoid — who am I? Who is Josh? Am I disinformation agent? Am I Artificial Intelligence? Am I a walking talking wikipedia page? Am I simply someone trying to get to the bottom of things, understand how consciousness works, how external and internal programming works? What happened to the concept of Gaia?

    Alright — those last couple lines above were more to break up the seriousness and lighten things up. Now I really will shut up and let others speak. Once again Greg — good show.

  5. Yes! Such a great episode. Not only does she seem normal and genuine but she brings in new information which is refreshing. I don’t even care if TPTB have tapped her as a “high brow Delong”. I’d much prefer this grounded academic and Oxford Press be the messenger than that clown Delong and his TiTS & AAS cash grab. I don’t know if it’s the same faction or even an allied one that is opening doors for her but clearly someone is and I’m down with that.

    1. Just listened to the recent interview on Skeptiko with Kevin Day (Navy air-controller witness from the Nimitiz encounter). I thought it was interesting that he specficially mentioned Dr. Pasulka. He said he’s a member of a closed Facebook group of UFO bigtimers called AATIP (yes that AATIP Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program) – he says George Knapp, Dave Beaty (obviously), and Jeremy Corbell are all members. Then he says Dr Pasulka recently joined and that he spoke to her briefly but she’s so busy, then he mentions her book by name. Maybe that’s just what’s happening in UFOlogy right now or maybe she’s being pushed as much as possible. He’s obviously being used as an instrument of the soft disclosure/ technology rollout/ project blue beam/ [insert your theory here] regardless of whether or not he’s a conciouse and active participant. (I say this because he says he was visited by Tom Delonge and Luis Elizondo last summer and they confirmed that two guys who had befriended him the year prior were actually interested in him because of his encounter). Anyway it seemed noteworthy.

  6. Dude, you’re the f’ing man! Not only do you bring in every guest in with ‘THE BEST INTRO’ ever, you NEVER fail to bring awesome subjects and interesting up to date topic providers to the table. You’re my hero bro! keep up the good work, but most importantly, never surrender to the evil master! Btw, sorry if this sounds dumb, but I’m high azzz fizzzzuk;) thanx again homie

  7. I definitely get the impression she is genuine. But with all insider contacts the possibility of someone leading her down the primrose path or setting her up to provide specific misinformation is there. Grain of salt and all that, but another possibility is this is part of a rollout / disclosure agenda. Without knowing who is in play it is hard to gauge the situation accurately. All we really know it that they have deep contacts and access.

    1. 100% agree but I do think she somewhat helps build the map if we take her at face value. She basically says Jacques Vallee has somewhat taker her under his wing – he gives her a tour of silicon valley and then meets with her 2-3x a year. We know Vallee isnt just a ufo researcher but a scientist and silicon valley venture capitalist. Following that she’s semi-initiated into a faction of silicon valley millionaire/ billionaire UFO researchers (seems like she’s a prospect and that this book may have already earned her her patch). She even alludes to the fact that this is like the formation of a religion for them. It’s interesting that she puts a hard stop on mentioning Tom Delonge – I don’t know if I should read that as she wants no association with that faction or is related but cant discuss it, or what. I don’t personally have a good map for speculating what allegiences or alliances this wealthy silicon valley faction has but I think we’ll be seeing quite a bit more of her and it will naturally reveal itself. If anyone can offer me some insight I would be very interested.

      It was also interesting that Tyler couldn’t get into the Vatican on his own until he showed them his ace card. I would LOVE to know what that is. At first I just assumed it was some government ID but really who knows.

  8. Was really excited about the subject of this which I thought would be looking into why alien ideas might be being /have been in the past put forward to reinforce religion but instead got this rather naive view of a woman which I would say has been used to get us ready for whatever crap we are about to get hit with to create the one world religion from alien disclosure through our screens. Mark Passio is totally correct in saying the benign naive humans are as dangerous as the evil ones. Anyone who gets support from the mainstream has to provoke suspicion and GETS INTO THE VATICAN!!?? Anyhow Greg I do take on what your outro said but …… can’t help wondering why out of everything we could look at it is hard NOT to find references to aliens and UFOs!

  9. Hi! Amazing interview. When she mentioned the Bowie comment I remembered that he spent quite a while out there filming The Man Who Fell To Earth, crazy film if ever there was one.

  10. Wow does she drone on like a happy chipmunk who found a favorite nut.
    Her info might be good or not but you gotta get the guest to have a conversation and not blabber.
    It’s kinda like trying to read a long run on sentence with no spaces.
    The one thing that I heard that lingered in my brain was something about ufo’ s and a new religion.
    My instincts say she is shillin for the same ol’ Masonic Jesuit great work controller mind fuck.
    But what do I know, I couldn’t listen to the end.

  11. I listened twice. It seems like an interview that would make more sense if I had already read the book. Just nothing of substance. I feel in the whole interview she didn’t really say anything of interest. Maybe i was too stoned for this one, just didn’t vibe. Great other shows for Feb tho.

  12. Where is the Vatican archive in Philadelphia? I’m a local and would like to do a little recon of my own.
    My guess is St Charles Borromeo Seminary. Greg, can you confirm? Thanks

    1. That would be my guess too. I always called it the Vatican of the east coast and it was a big deal when the pope went there during his Philly visit.

      1. Another possibility is on Villanova’s or St Joes campus. I don’t think its in Center city at the Archdiocese headquarters/ cathedral but, again, that’s another possibility

  13. I watch Rob Ager (Collative Learning) videos too. His film analysis is spot on and I would say he is the undisputed expert on Kubrick films. The irony is how he is soo resistant to connect the Kubrick symbology with the NWO.
    Just like Ben Davidson Rob is able to see the truth specific to his field of expertise but stop short of applying their knowledge to the larger paradigm. You should watch Rob’s analysis of Eyes Wide Shut. EWS is so in your face with the hidden in plain sight that Rob seems to be having an existential breakdown during the entire review while doubling down on his assertion that Kubrick is not exposing the secrets of the Elites.

  14. I thought it was a great show! Lots of new ideas to ponder. I really wanted to hear some about her purgatory studies, but I get that it’s old and she has a new book to discuss. Its all good. Thanks man.

  15. I really enjoy your show because I get introduced to new people and concepts.

    Great episode and interview.

    Really thought provoking and informative, esp. being new to a lot of this material.

    Definitely reading the book.

  16. I had to listen to this one twice, as I felt like I had my sceptic hat on the first go, as it all just felt to good to be true and my imagination conjured up a vision of Sarah Palin being on the other side of the mic!!
    I have fossicked for gems, stones and crystals in the outback desert and my eyes rolled so far hearing how they just found these artefacts just so easy…. hmm

    Then I thought, ok lets rewind… her background studies were solid and its really from whistles blowers that were ex CIA, Vatican, Freemason, etc etc that we get our best confirmation of what we suspect is going on.

    The whole UFO Religion really bothers me. Aren’t Religious people all worshipping alien/entities already?
    Are “those leaking this privileged info” grooming the religious population with a cross over of technology and a belief system so they can convert them? (this is how the pagans felt I bet!)
    Then where does that leave those of us who already live in the reality of… off planet beings/ interdenominational entities and gripping control of the masses by religion? (actually it’s more like were losing their grip and looks like they have another hold)
    And I wonder how many does their algorithms say will join there fold if it were to have a Star trek coolness that they could be apart of.
    Now I must read that book!

    Very very interesting though provoking stuff and such a great show for that reason!! Bravo!!

  17. Hats off to Carlwood for being such a polite but probing interviewer. Must be nice to be a cute blonde and have scientists lining up to show you secrets of the universe. I enjoyed the interview and she seems to be genuine but whenever you are shown the answer to a mystery there is always another mystery behind it.

  18. A fun ride with a post tenured track, silicone valley native on various grant writing assignments funded and published seemingly by Ivy League universities and zillionaire unnamed interests . We have ufo stars , secret ghost writers ,outstanding coincidences , secret unnamed scientists and more unnamed billionaires ! ..Can’t get any better than this. And the Vatican ! Wow ! Loads of fun! Really enjoyed this on many levels. Nice work on the interview Higher Side!

  19. Dana Scully 2.0 – sans the somber, scientific skepticism and security state insouciance; Upgraded, uploaded and armed with historical existential phenomenological methodology with an inside line to the Vatican’s voluminous vault of arcane archives and honorary member of the Silly-con Valley billionaire boys’ club. Laser sharp analysis that shreds the “oily appendages” of the secret cabal. Move aside, Captain Marvel, DP is my new superhero of 2019.

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