Chris Knowles | The Devolution Agenda, Decoding NASA, & The Heaven’s Gate Cult

Show Notes


Author, blogger, and conspiratorial playbook dismantler -Chris Knowles joins THC to talk about culture, symbolism, alt-history, media manipulation, and much more. We get into why NASA shouldn’t be trusted, what’s changed in “conspiracy culture”,  as well as how the Heaven’s Gate cult was misrepresented in media.

You can follow Chris’ exploration of pop culture symbology and more at his blog: and check out his books on Amazon:


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47 Responses

  1. Yes! A New Episode! Was Waiting For A New One! Haha, Thanks Greg! I Constantly Look Forward To Your New Shows And Have People I Know Hooked! Keep Up The Great Work! You Are A Fantastic Interviewer/Host Beyond Description! Cheers! 🙂

      1. This contained some of the most mind-blowing content. A recent comment made by Chris on Rune Soup adds to, I am speculating here, that which he near the end of the episode wouldn’t speak further on, and I may be way-off here, but it’s worth connecting I hope all appreciate so –

        “Catherine Austin Fitts has been talking about a plan to “harmonize” the income levels and costs of living of the entire world, eliminating for instance the disparity between the cost of a German factory worker and one in Thailand. Something to bear in mind.”

        I hope you will have CAF on – she is the most-refreshing of all those who speak on money, along with M. Armstrong –

  2. The Chinese DID claim the moon landing was a hoax! The Russians where hoaxing the Gagarin “First man in space” themselves. That is one of the reasons they kept quiet. A lot of backdoor deals between the super powers. Do some research before going on the show.

    1. Yeah it’s been a scheme and method for funneling funds and taxpayer money to black op projects they don’t want the world to know about. And if we could stretch this idea out and say all these space programs are just methods for the local governments to collect money to “go to space”, and provide some cheap video or camera work and pocket the rest of the cash that wasn’t spent on 1.5 trillion worth of rockets? Or who’s to say when America helped these countries establish their own space programs, they implemented their own puppets and pulled a country to country con job. America sucking the pesos and yen out of the less fortunate countries? This episode got me thinking. This all makes sense in my head .happy 420

  3. The song is working.
    I played it for my new girlfriend, she started tapping heR toe AND
    we started singing along.
    She agreed to a second date!
    Where would I be witout THC?

  4. What was Chris alluding to at the end of episode? Interested to hear other listeners takes. My 1st time hearing of Chris. He seemed to buck the trends some so not sure what his view might be or what he was insinuating to look at historically.

    1. Probably the idea that power comes from fear. Historically genocides happen when elite powers use the fear of an “other” to blame the current societal problems on. That’s my guess (i.e. WWI and WWII).

    2. I wish he would’ve elaborated a little more on Greg’s question too. Telling people to study history and that he and Gordon have been discussing it in emails was such a non-answer, imo. Other that lame evasion, the interview was interesting.

  5. Dude, excellent interview.
    Have been a huge fan of Chirs’s blog for years. Was great to hear him give his views on so many interesting topics.
    Keep the wyrd flying, my brother!

  6. Humm. I don’t think that the moon mission happened at the time the US said it did, if we ever in fact went to the moon at all. The interviews with the astronauts seem to indicate unpreparedness in their stories and an inability to address the radiation belt, stars in the sky and other various items that should have been simplistic. Too much is fishy about it, though it is entirely plausible that they have been since. ITs all so incredulous I’m not sure how to believe anything. But he has a good point about the flat earthers. The implausibility of the lies does tend to corral us into the next possible belief system. I hadn’t thought of that before, now I’ll keep my self more aware, I hope.

  7. Hello Greg, I was walking down the street this last Tuesday night (the 10th) around 7 p.m. and saw a meteorite streak across the sky and explode. I was in Burbank and it looked to be traveling from East to West. It was also really low on the horizon, not straight up over head. Could this have been the asteroid/meteor you mentioned in the interview? Thanks for another great show! Erik

  8. You are a bad son of a gun. untrystly, bad person…. “ÖGONTJÄNARE” look it up. thats what i think you are. Croow 777 was god thing.
    Do not forget to take your mushroom.

  9. A fun show with an very entertaining character and I will check out his blog for sure. I liked his take on the perception of conspiracy messages being too connected with Christianity and that it turns people off. I was not raised Christian but I identified with it for a time later in my life and have no regrets, simply a station in my journey and a very positive experience.

    And yet when the ‘alternative’ info comes from a biblical based person something in me goes ‘oh no’ and I was puzzled by my response but Chris gave me some good clarity on this. It is hard enough to figure out what info to trust. If their info has to fit with the bible, for me it is not coming from a place of freedom and I think what we need now is thought that is free from and outside the old mind controlled paradigms.

  10. I can hear the critics shouting about the lack of evidence in interviews like this. But Chis is 100% correct, there’s been so much evidence it’s boring to even talk about. Then everyone else in the world without an ounce of observational skills says “You guys don’t use logic.” When the shit hits the fan and people finally see this stuff, I’m going to say nothing but “I told you so” for a year. A lifetime of rage and people’s ignorance.

  11. Interesting show, but Chris seems as naive as Gordon White on so many areas. Disappointing someone with such interests is so dismissing of scientific evidence when it comes to Flat Earth? Feels like these guys have something to hide as Im sure they are not that small minded…

    1. Exactly! For the final time for the deaf guy up the back; You. Can’t. Prove. It.

      I love the flat earth material, because it really opened my eyes to the extent that people, like myself, can be manipulated to follow blindly the “official” line, but other than that, it is fucking laughable that slaves are arguing with other slaves about the theoretical construction of their prison cell.

      Yes, the idea that the spinning ball generates a force that pulls us onto it is patently bullshit, and blind Freddy could see that gravity is most probably a frequency, especially in light of using sound waves to cancel it out and float shit, but does that mean the land mass is flat?? Hell no! It just means it’s a load of shit.
      Same with all the other arguments that I have seen so far. All they prove is that the debate points used to “prove” it is round are patently bullshit, but that does not prove it’s flat anymore than it proves it’s an hour glass!

      It is a great tool to make you open your eyes, but like I said, slaves arguing with slaves about shit that will not free them.

      If the FET unlocks your mind, then great, but man, choosing a side is playing right into the trap. Both And. Balance is the only thing that will get us out, not duality

      1. It is laughable if it weren’t so deadly! I’m going to go out on a limb here and extend that us v them trap to the whole white genocide thing that the guest chose to avoid.

        1. Yeah, I am starting to feel the same way.
          Reading the Rune Soups posts comments re: Paris is a very enlightening look at where polarisation can lead.
          I am thinking especially of DefiantPanda’s stuff, regarding predictive modelling from the Web pinning you down with 80%(!!) accuracy, alternative/conspiracy voices potentially being illegal in France, and then Puritycontrol brings it home with ” Don’t pray for “us”, we have enough multi-egregoric war ragining in France already, concentrate on your own safety, our land is already fucked anyway..”

          We really can’t be putting energy into “was it blowback because the French Govt. has been pricks in North Africa/Middle East for 300 years, or was it a false flag, or was it The USA sending France a message about the TPP using ISIL???………”

          “They” are mining our energy, in the form of money among other things, and using fear and uncertanty to continue the game,( although they sure as shit aren’t playing around!!) and in return “they” offer us protection, from Ourselves!!
          As you say, it’s a fucking comedy, but don’t be fooled into laughing.
          And, if we truly can’t die, in the way that we think we do, because you can’t kill energy, then it is much more real than “deadly”; it’s fucking eternity!!

          Balance, Harmony. Repeat.

          1. Haha, always a pleasure to read you, hammer1

            Although the FET and white genocide are two completely different subjects, the passion of the proponents are very similar, imo. Normally, I love that kind of passion but in these two cases, not so much. The true believers seem to think that their theory answers and/or supersedes everything else and there’s a lot of hostility toward those that don’t share their views. It’s disturbing to watch.

          2. @hammer1 – Right on, right on – we’re in a mess that no political body or egregore will ever fix. And @JKMB, I don’t think Chris dodged the question. If you’ve been following woo woo radio shows for any little bit of time, have a handle on COINTELPRO, and have a working knowledge of European military history during the last century, there are re-occurring patterns that throw up all kinds of red flags. I think discretion is preferable to throwing gasoline on a brush fire. I would love to hear Mr. Knowles back on THC anytime (and more on X-files!)

            1. @Talamh3 – don’t assume so much! Just because I think he dodged the question doesn’t mean I didn’t enjoy the interview or want him back. I said it was a good interview in the very post you responded to.

              If you think it’s too dangerous to talk openly about the white genocide narrative, that’s okay but I disagree.

              1. @JKBM My bad, did not mean for my assumptions to be personal and missed the place in the thread where you said you thought the interview was good. I agree that the hostility that true believers often charge forward with is disturbing to watch. It didn’t seen to me that Chris was trying to be discreet because he didn’t see the us vs. them trap as deadly, but more so that he didn’t wan’t to step right in the middle of that nasty rusty thing. At one point in the interview he deferred to other researchers that spend more time delving into deep politics. I’m fine with that. I don’t think the white genocide narrative is too dangerous to talk about, but also can see how it might not be something every guest might want to tackle in head on fashion. Half of what I said earlier should have been carved off and dropped as a separate comment, again my bad.

                1. Not a problem, Talamh3 and I appreciate the response. My bad for being too harsh because he certainly has the right to decide what he’s comfortable talking about. These are highly charged topics so kudos to us for getting through this so gracefully. 🙂

                  1. We said. Kudos to both of you
                    Man, if you got me on, I would not go anywhere near the shape of the Earth, who are the illuminati, white genocide, did the moon landing happen, how many Jews/were any Jews killed in the 1940’s…………
                    I mean, all this stuff is great fun, but if you pick one side to the detriment of the other, it ceases to be fun, and becomes a fucking football match!
                    We should be looking at as many sides as we can to all of these questions, and then going, “Hmmm, how can I turn this knowledge into wisdom to set myself free?”

                    Believers are dangerous,( as opposed to Knowers), and picking sides is a trap, that is why it is not socially acceptable to choose both and; self policing society.

      2. @hammer1– “it is fucking laughable that slaves are arguing with other slaves about the theoretical construction of their prison cell.” That gave me a chuckle! Philip K. Dick could’t have said it better.

  12. Dinosaur existed & hitler like all tyrants was a monster. Now let’s talk about nuke and how the government uses fear like Isis to control the population. No truer books were written than animal farm and 1984

  13. Greg, I like what you said about the HSC+ forum in your closing rap. We got a sweet deal here. A fringe forum behind a paywall with minimal flaming and very thoughtful and openminded posts. I would love to see it become more active. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know.

    1. I feel the same way. As far as I’m concerned this is the coolest (and most considerate) podcast / platform for fringe, conspiracy, and alt. history ideas on the web, and I’ve been listening to and reading everything I could get my hands on for a while. I remember losing a few days of my life in 1998 (before Google) when I realized that you could pull up articles on the ‘world wide web’ about HAARP and MK-Ultra. Which was exciting for a while, but then I realized I didn’t know a singe person who had any idea about what I was trying to tell them.

      Why should’t this also be one of the best places on the web to connect w/ community that share a common language? Count me in.

  14. You CAN’T say that the Saturn polar configuration is wrong simply because Saturn is not big enough to be a brown dwarf (or whatever). First, do brown dwarfs even exist in the first place? Is it just more fusion spacetime gobbledygook!?

    First you establish the who, what, where and when and then you try to figure out the why or how!


    “One-Way Ticket To Pluto”
    Dead Kennedys, Bedtime for Democracy (1986)

    Get ready for the Blast Off!
    And don’t forget the Hype!
    We’re going into space.

    Distinguished scientists
    A pesky senator
    And monkey turds leaking from the lab
    All brought to us play-by-play by Howard Cosell

    You’re going where no man has gone before
    Because we owe you some favors
    And besides you’re bright
    A little too bright

    Step one:
    Senator, your vomit,
    It’s time to analyze it
    For the folks back home

    Open the hatch, launch the war satellite
    That the commies aren’t supposed to know about
    Our real challenge is to keep it a secret
    From the press back home

    You’re going where no man has gone before
    Don’t ask us where that is-we have no idea

    You’re chosen for this great mission
    Because you’re hearty and strong
    And make a lot of fuss
    Especially around us
    We like you better when you’re far away

    Have you noticed?
    You’re gong the wrong direction
    We have,
    But that’s your problem
    We planned it that way
    We had to dispose of all of you so
    We can spoil the final frontier
    How dare you question our Star Wars plans
    For the farce that they are?

    You’re going where no man has gone before
    For rocking the boat
    In our temple of doom

    You’re on a one-way ticket to Pluto
    We wash our hands
    Of you and your lost Ark
    Don’t forget to write: NO NO NO NO NO

    Writer(s): Jello Biafra, East Bay Ray, Klaus Fluoride, Darren Eric Henley, D. H. Peligro, Klaus Flouride
    Copyright: Decay Music

  16. Wow I remember the Heavens Gate mass suicide, the Hale- Bopp comet and the Phoenix Lights all happening in the spring of 97’…. but never connected the dots.
    Kudos to Chris for his mad deductive skills! I remember taking my kids outside at night with binoculars and a shitty little telescope to see the comet (which appeared with very little advanced notice if memory serves me right) and having specific conversations with them about the Heavens Gate suicides AND the Phoenix Lights…
    …but never made the connection until this show! My kids are 32 & 29 now and are both proud subscribers to THC podcasts. This year’s conversation around the Turkey is going to be awesome! As always, THANKS GREG!!!

  17. I think Chris and your analysis of conspiracy culture as something born out of latent evangelical christianity is spot on. That brings up an interesting question. If NASA is a new version of a trickster/devil, or “Science” is a minion of this trickster devil then what’s the God character?

    The scientific method is based on a philosophy of radical skepticism, of the notion that the world of ideas can be explored by the mind and not necessarily by the senses, so from my POV, the flat earth stuff is like a really crippled version of science.

    There’s a big difference between skepticism born of genuine curiosity and “fuck you” skepticism, which is nihilistic and useless. It’s a fashionable pose of poseurs. It’s like being “into philosophy” but never reading a philosophy book. It’s like getting a tattoo of Socrates but never reading Plato.

    If you use Google Maps (which calculates distance based on spherical models/measurements of the earth) and GPS, but still think the earth is flat, you should go out and measure it. You can measure the geometry of the earth with a stick. A greek dude did it 2000+ years ago. (Look up Eratosthenes.) You can then draft your own maps and will no longer be the subject of the evil NASA conspiracy.

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