Peter Levenda | Sinister Forces, Occult History, & The Nine

Show Notes


Today on the podcast, the great researcher and author, Peter Levenda joins THC to talk about the missing esoteric elements to American history, and human history in general. We talk about the ancient mound builders, the occult interests of America’s founders, the Salem Witch Trials, the JFK assassination, and the strange blue blood seance commonly referred to as The Council of Nine.

Check out more of Peter’s work and his wide range of interesting books at:

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48 Responses

  1. Really great show Greg!
    It is nice to listen to a sensible guest who sees the world in a more nuanced and sublte way.
    The same goes for your closing rant at the end of the show right on point.
    Along with Gordon White, Chris Knowles and Joseph Farrell one of the better guests and thus THC+ episodes.
    I am looking forward to Peter Levenda his return to THC+.

  2. I was so happy when you mentioned that Peter Levenda was the the next guest interview coming up. Knowing that this is next up in the que on my pod player makes getting to work this morning so more exciting! Thanks again Greg for putting together such a great list – THC just keeps getting better and better.

  3. As I’ve spent time listening to researchers, and doing my own reading on this topic, I’ve decided the average conspiracy researchers making the alt-media circuit, like Peter, are steeped in the exoteric teachings of Xty and take that as “normal”. Hence, there’s an ooga-booga factor to their research, and rather than leading the audience to “enlightenment”, they’re just guiding people to a different cave. That said, I really enjoyed the interview and thought there was a lot of interesting material there. And, in a lot of ways Peter is thinking way, way, way outside the box.

    When you take the point of view that the esoteric/occult is the historical norm and is our collective patrimony then its everyday role becomes apparent. It’s not odd or sinister that anyone, blue blood or Nazi, would turn to it. If there’s an “other side”, it’s actually part of nature. It might be dangerous, the same way a lion or measles is dangerous, but why regard it as beyond the pale?

    Similarly, this latent exoteric christian perspective makes people blind to the esoteric underpinnings of their own exoteric religion. Eating cracker jesus? If you accept that custom as totally normal, and worse yet, as the rightful culmination of an unfolding divine plan of History, that is monotheisms replacing paganism, you are blinded. You can’t see the obvious connections to ancient religious practice, like a “wheat Osiris”.

    1. Kevin, I love the way you write. I esp like how you said,” leading us into a different cave”. You should become a famous writer. I’d it yer books in a heartbeat. Right on!

  4. I found his viewpoint interesting but have a hard time with some of his logic. The connections he found between the power broker families and paradigm altering events were intriguing and imo only bolster the allegations of control even more. The notion that a small group of people run our country and in large part the world is too *out there* because people are too stupid and poorly educated. Yet we know that golden million or whatever the exact number would be would have access to private education at the most elite institutions in the world that would not at all be analogous to the typical public school education most people receive.

    So the remaining question really is could powerful individuals or collectives of people exercise that kind of control over our politicians and actually shape policy? The answer to that is a not only could they but that they actually have quite openly for the last 35 years or so.

    Everywhere we look that control exists but somehow we think at a certain point we break free because we get a nice enough house or car. Placation with consumer goods, the slave mentality sold to people on a daily basis that the ultimate pursuit one can undertake is consumption and possession.

  5. So glad you had Peter Levenda on, I could listen to him all day. He also writes as well as he speaks. As dark and disturbing as the Sinister Forces series is in part, and as much as I probably needed a break, I couldn’t put the books down. Also glad to hear that he is working on another project and that he agreed to return to talk about the Process Church and the Wandering Bishops. Crazy fascinating stuff. I never email guests but since you mentioned that listener feedback could be a determining factor on whether the guest returns or not, I will start to do that.

    Bravo on your closing thoughts Greg. I don’t think that you’ll end up the only podcast that sees the white genocide fear porn for what it is but even if you are you have to be true to yourself. In my experience, staying true to yourself and love is all that really matters anyway. If that makes people mad, so be it…they’re mad anyway.

  6. Great interview Greg. I’m off to Amazon now to pick up Sinister Forces…. yikes is there any paranormal subject that he DIDN’T have deep knowledge of?
    I thought you did a nice job moving the dialogue along while diving deep when appropriate (like getting his views on Zionism before finishing up on the Nazi’s). Thanks man!

  7. He’s great. Heard about 15 interviews over the years with him.

    I’m having a flat Hadibov delimma…
    once you realize NASA is fake
    and there is no space
    where’s the secret of a space program?

    Congratulations THC Master
    your show is growing nicely.


    1. haha It’s true that when you hunker down on the Flat Earth theory, there becomes a very short list of researchers who fit within it. Glad you liked it anyway, thanks for listening!

    2. And then you start to speculate on whether The Flat Earth theory is being pushed from the shadows by the secret space program’ just to buy them some more time…….
      Just adding fuel to a bushfire! 🙂

  8. Another great interview. Especially enjoyed the section in the second half where you guys got into how muddy the waters got in recent history when government/intelligence started to hire players from other teams – how long does it take till the question becomes, ‘who’s infiltrating who?’

    The one topic that Peter brought up that caused me to pause and doubt and say, hmmm, was on the topic of Lovecraft’s ignorance of Crowley’s work and the dates of his ritual practices. He stated that based on his readings of Lovecraft’s diaries, as well as knowledge of his writings and Waspy persuasions, Lovecraft just wouldn’t have known about this kind of stuff. If he was trying to pull juice from that current to fuel his carrer, perhaps he wouldn’t leave the kind of messy record that Hubbard did. This was brought to mind based on what I read on a couple of blog articles by guest Chris Knowles of The Secret Sun that had to do with Lovecraft’s unexplored connection to Theosophy:

  9. Greg – just want to echo the comments of a few others. Levenda is one of my favorites. I’ve heard him tell about The Nine and his experience at La Dignidad a number of times. To his credit, he tells the stories the same every time – but – he continues to learn and adapt his understanding and thereby adjust his perspective on those stories. You did a superb job of balancing the depth and breadth of discussion. Peter has SO MUCH information that he can elaborate on a single topic deeper and deeper to where the connections he can make between topics is not given time. You made sure that didn’t happen. Some time I’d like to hear Peter talk about his experiences and insights from living in and studying Asian cultures. When we think about hidden elite control, usually some version of the European history and influences becomes our subject. So, what about the huge, ancient, influential cultures of Asia? We are one world and i think Peter is one of the few people with the interest and courage to look at traditions from all around the globe.

    Also, i share others’ appreciation of your “rant” at the end. It’s way too easy to want and try to reduce events and patterns into simple explanations. “The controllers” know that we have that tendency, so they continually play the divide and conquer game. Peter is so reserved and well-spoken about that! He always diverts simplistic answers in a way that i find very human and “common sense.” You get that. I like that you said it seems to you to be a “both and” situation. I think the yin/yang taiji symbol speaks deeply to our situation, but i have to constantly remind myself not to focus on the binary aspect of it; but rather, to remember that it is intended to describe the dynamic flow between apparent opposites.

    Your introductions and wrap-up remarks are always articulate and insightful. Whether because of or in spite of your “burn out, drop out” experience, you are spot on. I respect your personal integrity to give your personal take on things. That helps us listeners validate our personal responses. This is my first comment since joining the + side. Sorry it’s so long. Thanks for your fine work and the courage to put it out there!

    1. Great post! I would love to hear Peter’s take on asian occultism and alchemy as well. I have not read his book
      “Tantric Temples” which no doubt covers this topic. I’m sure he dives into sex magic here and am sure he draws some distinctions with Crowley.
      All roads lead to Crowley in my estimation.

  10. Awesome show! Peter Levenda is a wealth of knowledge and insight. I always find myself picking up a new-to-me thread for further research after listening to him. Thank you!

  11. Greg.. DUDE. Such a great guest, roster of topics, interview and final aside. Also, thanks very much for speaking up and out against the nonsensical xenophobia that is the misguided, ignorant concept of “white genocide”. As a white male in my early 30s born and raised in the Deep South, it makes me mental to hear the absurdity and oxymoronic rhetoric that some unfortunate and misinformed people try to assert as a serious threat to “white culture”. I could espouse all day about it but will just leave it at thank you. GREAT job as usual and Peter Levenda is now def added to my “to research further” list that you consistently contribute to! Love the show!!

  12. Peter Levenda’s writing on the occult and politics is a must for anyone interested in just what hell was
    going on during the Sixties in the United States. This was a rabbit hole decade if their ever was one.
    I’m reading “Sinister Forces” now and really appreciate the detailed and scholarly approach Levenda takes
    with his writing on the decade, (though some of the orthodox bishop canonical connections was a bit much to wade through).

    Levenda is also breath of fresh air in a field dominated by right wingers and anti-Semites. I appreciated your commentary on this Greg and thanks for getting Levenda on the show. The topics that THC covers really transcend the left right paradigm, I mean when folks keep moving more and more to the right and left they only end up backing into each other.

    Peter hinted that he’s working on research into blood sacrifice and just what’s up with that anyway?
    There must have been some reason for all that blood spilled by the Aztecs…. I’m looking forward to Peter’s next book and what his research unveils.

    I’d love for you to do a panel discussion on the Sixties with Peter Levenda, Jay Dyer, Jay Weidner and Dave McGowan . It would be fascinating.

  13. Great show, Why is it that when people speak of the SS , they leave out the important fact that it was a very multi cultural group from many counties, not just blond hair blue eyed whites. Also the fact that it was the jews who declared war on Germany. It is baffling how these details get left out. An aside note, who was the Time man of the year in 1938… yes it was Adolf Hitler.

  14. OK enough with the mobile gas chamber, first and last they had diesel engines in their trucks/vehicles. Do the research, you can not die from diesel exhaust. Stop the freakin lie, there was no holocaust. Its funny how the jews have been prosecuted thru out history and it is always someone else fault, If you have 300 ex girl friends, its time to look in the mirror.

  15. Not 100% on board. He places a heavy bit on the nazis, rightly so, but I don’t buy 6 million Jews died. More Protestants and Catholics died in these labor camps than the Jews. The establishment of Israel was based on an incredibly exaggerated story bottle necked down from all the dissenters to only the Jews. Mobile gas chambers… There’s zero traces of these death chemicals at Auschwitz. Finding these chemicals is like looking for Bush’s weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Only existed in the minds of some

  16. Still listening to this episode, but just wanted to quickly make another intriguing UFO – JFK connection.

    Fred Crisman, together with Harold Dahl, claimed to have witnessed multiple UFOs over Maury Island while on patrol in Puget Sound in 1947. According to their initial story, one of the objects dropped a molten metal-like substance on their boat, killing a dog. Crisman also claimed encounters with Men In Black following the incident. Dahl later claimed it was a hoax, however.

    Kenneth Arnold (of ‘flying saucer’ fame) investigated the incident as did two military intelligence officers who died soon afterwards in a plane crash.

    Years later, Crisman would be identified as one of a number of ‘tramps’ in Dealey Plaza on the day of the JFK assassination and was subpoenaed by Jim Garrison in 1969 to testify in the case against Clay Shaw.

    Crisman was certainly an interesting cat. For starters …

    1. There’s a really good book written by Kenn Thomas called JFK & UFO: Military Industrial Conspiracy and Cover-Up from Maury Island to Dallas that addresses all those really strange incidents and more.
      The book isn’t well written or well organized but imo that can be overlooked because it’s full of information and back-up documents.

  17. On point with that rant bro, important you have your blow outs now and again keeps the vibe real! Big shout out to your guest for telling it as it is re “we gotta do the work on ourselves first before venturing into the unknown” or words to that effect, never a truer statement made on your entire show. One of your other guests warned about enticing spirits into our energy field many shows ago, for exactly the same reasons 🙂

  18. Crowley may not have openly espoused knowledge of vodoun but what is little known about Crowley’s infamous trip to New York City is that he spent nearly all his time in Harlem.

  19. I think this guy is to influences by mainstream views.

    The jews created communism.

    The jewish Bolsheviks were the string pullers for the soviets.

    I would love to see this guy debate David Duke on the jewish zionist issue.

    I felt like he was to easy on the jews. We all know they used the holocaust to occupy Palestine

  20. I really heard you about multi culturalism but I also believe that this is going to be used to break down the ideal of being sovereign – not anything to do with race but with about being cohesive enough to fight against the maritime laws where you are not treated as a human! Which you don’t seem to have been able to overcome in America. And what is that is Barbara Lerner Spectre up to in Sweden? I mean the most racist and segregated country is Israel! Yet this Israeli wants to promote multiculturalism in Europe? as an Israeli plan! What is going on?

  21. The part talking about the burial mounds and Manson reminded me of a quote from William S. Burroughs that someone was throwing around Reddit awhile ago. “America is not a young land: it is old and dirty and evil before the settlers, before the Indians. The evil is there waiting.” I wonder if there is any truth to that and what it could be and if those mounds and the way Levenda thinks they may have affected Manson have any connection to it.

  22. Your closing comments are really excellent, Greg. Very beautiful sentiments. Very good analysis. Truly sane and compassionate. Us stoners need to learn to tame our paranoia and really maximize our introspective abilities before arriving at certainties.

    Peter mentioned Julian Jaynes’ book, the Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind. It’s one of those wonderful, summary, paradigm-shifting works that struggles for canonization. Not surprisingly it shows up on Bowie’s top 100 book list.

    It must be said that Jaynes made the error of pointing to a single hypothesis of very specific biological evolution in order to explain the bio-mechanical aspect that he described. Later research demonstrated it to be untrue in the biological record, and this is the crux of his dismissal by the establishment. But the armature of paradigm that he set up in the book using a very cross-disciplinary approach is very powerful and persuasive. His analysis and definition of “Consciousness” toward the beginning of the book is the best I’ve ever considered, and I think ought to be the gold standard across disciplines. The sad part about his book is that the work was never completed. The book has 3 parts, and he intended it only to be the first third of a longer work, but he died before he finished. The good part is that the younger generation of artists, psychologists, psychiatrists, etc. are open to the book and it’s acceptability has improved since it was published in ’75. You’re really gonna love it.


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