Michael Joseph | The Occult Religion of the Elite & Its Influence

Show Notes


Join host, Greg Carlwood, of The Higherside Chats podcast as he talks the occult religion of the elite and it’s influence with guest, Michael Joseph.

While we are all aware, to fully grasp the intricate, and detailed web of deceit woven by the elite, one must dedicate a lifetime of study to topics such as astrology, philosophy, Gnosticism and Freemasonry. And while we may not have the time to pour over primary texts, and scour through source material, the hidden motivations and secret doctrines of the elite are buried within this vast array of information.
Today’s guest, Michael Joseph, has dedicated countless hours combing through archives, compiling his findings into an impressive portfolio, and using it to enlighten others about the fundamental principles and veiled tenets of the elite.
2:55 Greg begins by discussing the transitions of life that set Michael on a tireless quest for knowledge. From his humble beginnings in astrology and an enlightening experience surrounding the Boston bombing, to the invaluable awakening after the events of 9/11, Joseph lays the foundation for what facilitated his research and investigation into the elite’s manipulation of reality through esoteric and exoteric symbolism.
9:00 After digesting a ton of dense material, Michael produced his own Occult Science Series, which he appropriately deemed “an exploration of the hidden religions of world organizations”. Greg and Michael reflect on whether the belief systems of the elite are extracted from one particular school of thought, or if they are more of an amalgamation of several ancient doctrines. Michael explains how exoteric, or outer religions can hold esoteric, or inner truths about the primitive religion of the cosmos. They also discuss the effects of entrenched academics such as Neil deGrasse Tyson and Carl Sagan and their role in teaching the mystery religion.
15:42 After touching on the idea that perhaps the profane masses are attacking the visible problem, rather than the hidden one, Greg and Michael discuss in greater detail, the idea that Abrahamic religions may in fact worship a negative entity such as the Demiurge. They also discuss the role of the Vatican in science and constructing the Atheist paradigm, the dualism of science and religion, and the occult perspective on this school of thought. Michael also breaks down his thoughts on the esoteric and exoteric functions of the Vatican.
22:30 To stay the course, Greg and Michael continue their discussion on how Abrahamic religions are deceiving the masses by having them worship a materialist god. They also examine the role of the sacrificial, light-bearing, Lucifer- Prometheus archetype, the significance of it, and it’s adoption by the elite. Michael offers insight into the complex reasons the literature of the elite implies their righteousness, but their outward actions suggest something more nefarious.
30:45 While we may never really know the true intentions of the elite, and whether their role is complicatedly good or overtly evil, we can confirm that their secrets are well guarded. Greg and Michael discuss the Hidden Hand Dialogue, an inside account of Illuminati secrets, the possibility of an altruistic sacrifice preserving the freewill of the people, and the cosmic agreement of the elite. They also examine the perspective that America’s Freemason founders were attempting the noble act of ushering in enlightenment by trying to “restore Atlantis”.
37:00 Greg and Michael discuss his 9/11 ritual analysis, the symbolism of the collapsing dual towers and the significance behind the new single unified Freedom Tower.
43:00 While the debate of the elite’s motives behind 9/11 rages on, and the effects and depths of this illusionary trauma may be contested, the obvious connection of Saturn to these events is inarguable. Greg and Michael discuss the elite’s attempts alchemically elevate the black cube of Saturn, rather than worship it. From the oddities of flight 93, to the astrological and numerological synchronicities,  Michael continues to offer his perspective on the tangled web of symbolism surrounding 9/11.
48:00 What’s an episode of THC without a little flat earth? Greg and Michael switch gears and discuss how the flat Earth and globe Earth paradigms tie into this occult philosophy dichotomy. Michael explains how the Freemason compass and square represent the profane and divine nature of man and Earth.
53:13 Michael offers his perspective on how the mystery religions may be shaping our reality, which is an illusion, through framing human consciousness. He also addresses shedding the ego with unadulterated intention, and the possible perversion through implementation.
1:02:50 Greg and Michael discuss the Kabbalistic roots to the prevailing theory that the Earth’s core is made of iron.
Subscribe to the plus show to hear the extended episode, including:
– the hollow Earth and concave Earth in esoteric literature
– and elaboration on the idea that we are trapped on a prison planet in the aftermath of a cosmic war
– the elite are attempting to “jailbreak” through various magical and scientific means
– the esoteric subtext and astrology o the moon landing ritual
-gravity in the context of the secret religion
– accounts of ancient schisms among the elites and the campaign of the knowledge seeders
– the esoteric symbolism around the death of David Bowie, the Jack Stephens element, and how that could be an example of a larger pattern
– the astrology of the JFK assassination and the numerous rituals that seemed to have been rolled into the single event
– the elite’s connection to non-human entities
Want more Michael Joseph? Check out his Youtube channel:, where you can find his extensive collection of videos condensing his countless hours of research!
Want to hear more THC? Become a plus member and gain access to the additional hour as well as the THC forums! If you want to stay connected to The Higherside Chats, like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter, check out our YouTube channel, find us on Reddit, or review us on iTunes. Thanks for the support, and until next time.
A few valuable resources from the interview:

Mark Passio’s “What on Earth is Happening”:

Helena Blavatsky:
Michael Joseph’s “Occult Science 10.0- Hypatia & the Alexandrian Gnosis”:
Michael Joseph’s “Occult Science 9.0- Bruno the Pythagorean”:
Lucis Trust website of The United Nations:
Michael Joseph’s “Occult Science 6.0- The Big Bang Theory: Primordial Matter & the Cosmic Egg”:
Manly P. Hall’s Archive:
Michael Joseph’s “Occult Science 2.0- Elaine Pagel & Gnostic Theology”:
Michael Joseph’s “Occult Science 4.0- Heliocentric Vs. Geocentric Astrology”:
Michael Joseph’s “Occult Science 5.1- Gravity and The Earth’s Iron Core”:
Michael Joseph’s “Occult Science 14.1- Apollo 11 & the Magick Number 7”:

PLUS Content

67 Responses

  1. I’m still listening but must say that you had me literally laughing out loud when Michael denounced the current pope. Your response with a cool, “Right on, man” was classic! I’m no fan of Pope Francis for a variety of reasons. The exchange between you and your guest was just too funny! I needed that laugh. Now, I’ll return to listening to the interview.

  2. Michael seems very educated on these topics. I really liked the flow of this show. Bring him back for more definitely. I really appreciated his perspectives on the “9/11 ritual” stuff. It was very interesting & refreshing to hear that people aren’t accepting the paradigm that was prescribed to us on that fateful day. Also I loved his view on the Vatican and the Pope trying to influence science and gain control of the narrative, good stuff!

    1. Agreed! The “religion” behind scientific theories is a huge interest to me right now. It’s also sort of slippery and tough to find good guests on, but Michael does a pretty solid job.

      1. Religions have been controlling scientific discoveries and social paradigms forever! For all Nations, State & Religion (whether mono or polytheistic) were a package deal for most of history. And if nation states have been a major factor in the development of the sciences (engineering, astronomy, horticulture, mathematics, etc.) then it really isn’t a stretch to say that it’s been manipulated, if not for nefarious reasons, then for simple greed and ultimate power over others suffice. Time again we’ve seen nations and religions controlling science to control the populace. Gnosis is the power of the people.

        1. @blackshoe10

          I get no reply button on that post (probably reached a reply limit) so im posting here instead.

          Can you tell me more about these geosynchronous satelites? how did you see them? what telescope? how do you know they were satelites? could you make out details or were they lights? did they move? can you still find them?
          and could it have been a mistaken baloon?

          Not sure i trust NASA enough to belive anything at all they tell me. maybe the earth is banana shaped. But your details would help alot in my decision.


      2. I think there is a case to be made that this particular show exemplifies a road or path that most “conspiracy theorists” find themselves on, with the difference being that Michael Joseph is in the express lane. I used to think that all good conspiracy theories end in religion, but the reality might be that religion is just the beginning. I certainly have a few of the same books on the shelf, and have checked out Passio (comes on a bit too strong for me), Veith, Red Ice, and a few other resources. I know I’m not the only one. Great show!! Certainly a home run, this one just really tied everything together very nicely and provided an excellent resource. Thanks!!

    1. I think they’re referring to the people who were presumably on the airplanes. Obviously the people in the buildings died. Just as people in Iraq and Afghanistan died as a consequence of those planes, as well. But the figures of the hijacked planes and the immediate sacrificial victims on those planes remains to a large audience to be unproven, or even absurd, as absurd as steel frame buildings falling to the ground at free-fall speeds because they were struck by 757s.

    2. who did you lose? any names we can look up? not to be insensitive, but should be easy to shut me up with real names and pictures, there is alot of people that like to claim they lose people in any disaster, not saying you are one, but they do exsist.

      Prove me wrong by providing details please, nothing would make me happier

      Also if anything i support the right to question anything, not just some things.


      1. This would be an interesting question if it concerned a passenger on one of the commercial airliners said to be involved. Otherwise it’s a bit too self-indulgent and douchey. The number of dead from the building collapse is estimated at ~3000, and there’s no good reason to dispute this. Lots of people really died. Most every New Yorker knows someone who knows someone who died, even if they didn’t know a victim directly.

        Save the deep character inquiries for Sandy Hook and for the Boston Bombing.

        1. always the same answer, “i know someone that knows someone”, but when pressed for names…..crickets.
          I find that odd.

          even my own parents were guilty of this in a local psyop (the brevik case in norway) after pressing long enough, i still havnt gotten names.

          That looks like brainwashing to me.

          And lets be fair, its easy to close off a section of town, do a demolition and air that footage with added layers on tv.
          then you can claim whatever victim count you want. 3000 , hell maybe 10 000 why not.

          I hope im wrong, but so far people just dodge that question, no one actually answers WHO, WHAT and WHEN
          curious huh?

          and as a sidenotr : i am still not trying to be a douche or insensitive, but do you see the namecalling you did there? im after truth only, if im wrong im wrong, but provide the evidence please.

          Cant you see playing on our emotions to be “nice” and “sensitive” stops us from asking these things?
          do you see the potential for fraud here?

          Take Sandy hook for instance, provable no victims, actually killing people does at this point seem like something “they” dont do. And would make sense. alot less people around to ask questions.

          emotions aside, can you at least entertain that point? isnt that what we do on sites such as these?


          1. Like I said, I’m fine with a socially uncouth inquiry where Sandy Hook is involved. And where the flight manifests of 9/11 planes are involved, too. But you can walk around New York, pass any fire department engine company or Police precinct and see photos with names on (albeit cheesy) plaques of cops and firemen who died. Granted their fates were used in vain for horrible atrocities, but to suggest they didn’t die is utterly silly, and invites discredit to any conspiracy inquiry. The organization of 9/11 widows became a significant social force fallowing the tragedy and major insurance and federal distributions followed. There’s just no reasonable disputing that many people died with those towers fell. The disputes are many, such as how their bodies vaporized, why no bodies showed up at the hospitals, and what caused the actual collapse. But not that 3k died. It’s easy stuff on the public record to confirm.

            As for people ‘knowing someone who knows someone,’ I’m referring exclusively to 2 degrees of separation, at a maximum, for nearly all New Yorkers. When it comes to flushing out the true historical facts of nefarious conspiracies, this is just a complete non-starter. The same goes for all the very recent claims that the planes themselves were some kind of holographic projections, etc. I mean, c’mon, (not saying you say this), but get your head out of your ass.

            And yes, even people who legitimately think it’s important to grill the self-professed parents of victims of Sandy Hook – even if these people are frauds and disaster actors – confronting them about it is still exceptionally douchy. It takes major uncouth balls to call someone a fraud to their face, especially if they purport to have lost a child. It should only be done after all the other evidence has been reviewed, not just because you have a hunch and aren’t convinced. Putting your own conviction up against someone else’s trauma is just a dick move, plain and simple.

            1. not sure the policy of linking youtube videos, but here is one that i found very topical, that goes over everything you just mentioned (yes everything)

              feel free to ignore him mentioning flat earth, but staying topical. If everyone is 2 degrees apart, present me a 1 degree person, shouldnt be hard no?

              Also as far as the public record is concerned, the death records of that day shows nothing, just like sandy hook. Funny that. maybe i should put them in touch with you so you can set them straight?

              not trying to be antagonistic, but in my view you are unknowingly (or maybe not?) gatekeeping, and trying to supress honest inquiry with debunked arguments.

              But hey i might be wrong, if you can present me a 1 degree person,i can talk to myself, you will turn me real fast.

              Evidence is all i ask. Not unreasonable in my view.


              1. There’s a fire department engine house at 6th Avenue between King and Houston. It has a plaque showing at least 5 “fallen heroes” with all the Never Forget jingo-ism you could want decorating it. If you need your first degree person, I encourage you to walk in their and ask to interview any of the old timers who were around 17 years ago.

                Do you really scour the internet asking complete strangers to give up names of their friends for you to talk to for ‘your research?’ If you really need a list of people to reference, so you can track down their family members, have fun. Here’s the list:

                I don’t know why the public record doesn’t show the deceased of the WTC collapse. I won’t make excuses, or be a gatekeeper for you, but here’s a hypothetical answer: Perhaps because there was no way for a medical examiner to ID any bodies because they were all turned to dust as a result of thermite explosions? That seems like a pretty decent reason. At that moment of explosion, all of those people became official ‘missing persons,’ and only later ‘assumed dead,’ because they didn’t show up at home ever again? Just because bureaucracies have twisted, convoluted ways of categorizing and confirming things, doesn’t make all record-keeping misrepresentations artifacts of nefarious machinations.

                Continue banging your head against the wall on this point – I have no idea why a state actor making a false-flag would want to prevent the deaths you claim are not accounted for (it’s more effective if they actually die) – but I think you’re an idiot for bothering with this one point. It makes you or anyone that doubts 9/11 orthodoxy look like an idiot.

                And while we’re talking about idiots, I encourage any flat earther to purchase a round-the-world air-fare ticket and to puddle jump on commercial airliners in any route they wish to take, while the sun is up and in a window seat, so they know for sure that they’re always moving in a consistent westerly or easterly direction. If, then, they continually go west and never get back to their home time-zone, well then maybe they’re not just a stupid lunk-head. Until then, flat-earthers should solicit the CIA for some kind of psy-op disbursement, because they’re doing their work for them.

                1. So in conclusion a plaque convinced you and you wont provide evidence. ok

                  im sadly based in europe otherwise i would gladly go there myself (maybe i still will if i ever find myself in america), if a skype for instance with any of the relatives of 3000 people is impossible to get in this day and age then i dont know what to tell you man, the emperor is obviously naked.

                  Also your around the world fare on a plane with a window seat is debunked at this very site in the eric dubay interview, and its debunked wether the earth is flat or not, its actually just a bad argument.

                  You are not the first person like this i talk to on the internet and the conversation always goes the same way.
                  Alot of namecalling, no evidence.

                  Keep repeating the same old arguments that does not hold water or even jet fuel till you are blue in the face, there are people in this world you can not brainwash by repetition alone.

                  Also please in the future, at least read up on your own side of the arguement before you post, this has been a embarassing display from your side


                  1. Dude,

                    You assume I’m in dialog with you in order to persuade you. I’m not.

                    You’re not just “sadly based in Europe;” you’re also sadly based in your own fantasy world. The Emperor surely wears no clothes, but your fashion sense isn’t about to capture the zeitgeist to restore any kind of golden age. There is no functional (or even spiritual) utility to the flat earth model, just as there is no utility to believing in some hologramic, reality-is-a-simulation matrix. If you can’t literally unplug, or even illustrate the ‘other’ true world, then you’re pissing into the wind and alienating yourself even further from life.

                    I didn’t tell you to go to the firehouse as evidence of my belief that those firefighters died; I told you to go to the firehouse to put your own flesh on the line and confront those guys about their dead friends. It was a way to illustrate that you’d be offending someone’s basic, intimate assumptions about reality and their own personal history. (Not to say that people don’t suffer from mass psychosis, but I’ll put my money on their dead friends over your fantasy that there were no-9/11-victims.) It’s not the kind of history they learned from the internet, or TV, or even books, which is the foundation of your knowledge. It is their own personal lived history. And by challenging that, you’d get your ass kicked. Does that make it just? I don’t endorse violence, but maybe. It’d have the practical effect of exposing the fact that you won’t respect the lived experience of another person, because of your profound existential doubts. And I think it might be a healthy lesson for you in casting doubt on authority. Some authority is worthy of challenging; some is pointless and self-defeating.

                    There happens to be utility in questioning who, how and why 9/11 happened, because it likely involved imperial military and energy cabals and their desire to manipulate outcomes to their benefit and everyone else’s detriment. It also exposes broken feedback loops that are supposed to keep our society just and healthy. That is sensible and has practical, ethical goals in mind. The same just can’t be demonstrated by campaigning for a flat earth model.

                    I’ll go listen to that Eric Dubay interview, to give your hallowed priest a fair shot. But, this will be my prejudice: I can’t see the fucking utility of deciding that the earth is flat. Nor can I grasp the benefit that it would confer to deny a cosmology made up of spheres. Meanwhile, within the realm of cosmologies, there’s definite utility in challenging the gravity/nuclear model in favor of a plasma model. But I’m sure you can’t be bother by that, because the sun surely can’t be real.

                    Back down to earth, flat or round, here during our lives we can hypothetically unseat the House of Saud, and other dictatorships. We can also – hypothetically – repeal the National Security Act and expose the CIA for their offenses against the Constitution. We could bring the Banksters to heel and we could set up a Universal Basic Income to unseat the Federal Reserves dominion. We can, hypothetically in some real sense, declaw the American Military Industrial Complex, by exposing their machinations to the light of day. The United States could potentially be restored to a society that believes in self-determination, open society, free inquiry, and so on. And we could train ourselves to quit bombing everyone else into submission by proxy for our luxuries. These are real and healthy possible outcomes, and arguably they are some real courses of action that might enable a renaissance, short of our self-destruction and/or further imprisonment. But you can only point fingers and tell me how ignorant I am to your highly refined belief in total doubt.

                    Is the earth a prison planet? Maybe. It certainly is for the fools who are subject to completely inane theories that don’t contribute to the human or general ecological condition. Enjoy your smug liberation, dude. I hope it’s utterly blissful for you.


                    1. This incoherent rambling is quite telling of your mental state.

                      And please for your own sake, stop threatening people with “kicking theire ass”,
                      i feel embarassed for you, not being able to argue in favor of your “obvious real” event with actual substance.
                      Kicking peoples asses does not make anyone right, this is not third grade, grow up.

                      Statements like that is starting to make me think these topics are not for you (thats ok, some people are probably best suited watching sports and drinking beer), and i do wonder why you are even here if you can’t see through very basic levels of deception.

                      Ok that was the insults out of the way (not a big fan of insults, but i wont give you the satisfaction of not answering in kind), now back to the subject at hand.

                      Let me provide even more proof for my side of this argument (Please do the same for yours).

                      Here is “the vicsim report”, a pretty good writeup by a guy that tried really hard to find real victims, but all he found was terrible photoshops.


                      Read more, knee jerk less


                  2. I just listened to Eric Dubay at your sycophantic and evangelistic urging . He reminds me of a cross between Milo Y. and Jan Irvin. With friends like them, who needs enemies?! That guy gives Freemasonry waaaayyyyyyy too much credit and imbues them with far more evil intent than they deserve. He makes Christian Fundamentalists, Zionists and Scientologists sound kind of reasonable. These guys do more to discredit open conspiracy inquiry than any orthodoxy ever could.

                    There’s a old tradition of yogic gurus who tell you what you want to hear, knowing that its a lie, so that they can live off of your desire, until you “find transcendence” and wise up to the ruse. Dubay has incorporated this tradition into the conspiracy realm with quite a bit of skill while maintaining a huge does of smarmy creepiness. If you find his arguments persuasive, you get what you deserve. Sadly it has a larger social consequence of discrediting anyone that asks a taboo question about truly suspect official orthodoxy.

                    Jesus Christ. I can’t believe I’ve wasted my time getting trolled by you. At least posterity can decide for itself. How depressing.

                    1. Read my post again.

                      I did in no way condone Eric Dubay, i just said that in that interview he does debunk your argument objectively what you think of him, and you can hear that yourself.
                      Many people utterly destroy the argument you made, but i used him as an example since the interview is on this page, that you obvisouly have access to.
                      Stop trying to make it into something it wasnt.

                      I actually agree on many of your points about him. But you need to learn to seperate the person from the info, and also weigh the info on its own merit, even disinfo agents peddle mostly truth.
                      Learn discernment please.

                      Also stop going on wild tangents trying to paint me in a wrong light.
                      Low level debate tactics like what you are showing this far does not work on me and It’s pretty obvious the one trolling here is you.


                    2. I am actually sympathetic to both of your points. Have been balls deep in this stuff for my whole life, I am first hand satisfied that the Earth is an oblate spheroid. Maybe it is just represented that way in the simulation, but whatever, that simulation stuff ultimately doesn’t matter as we are still trying to grok the rules, sim or not. I have myself navigated over great distances and aimed at enough geosynchronous satellites to know that FE is BS. I went in open minded, as so much else was a lie, but no. Too much obvious balliness. Yes, Nasa lies and there is all sorts of crap going on there but that does not mean FE.
                      That said, I am sympathetic to the idea that considerably fewer people died in 911 and other false flags that is commonly thought if only because the guys pulling these off adhere to natural law. I could see them taking great care to ensure no blood is directly on their own hands but being fine with people dying at the hands of order followers or as a result of free will/nescience. Firemen and cops would fit that latter bill. I may not agree with the PTB take on that, but that seems to be how they operate.

    1. I want to chime in on this, because I feel that the word isn’t being used consistently.

      Get the word profanity, as it relates to curse words and taboos out of your head. That use of the word comes from a late association with ‘base,’ or ‘low.’ Regarding the study of myth, the term profane is always in contrast to sacred. The profane is ‘of this world,’ whereas the sacred is ‘of the eternal.’ The profane is ‘of the day time;’ the sacred is ‘of the night.’ The profane is ‘of domesticity;’ the sacred is ‘of the wilderness.’ The profane is ‘of the visible or exoteric;’ the sacred is ‘of the invisible or esoteric.’ That’s what it means.

      Anything related to pop consumer material culture is fundamentally profane, for these reasons.

      If Greg and Michael joke that they are profane, it is largely because (a) we all partially occupy mass-culture and (b) they’ve never been initiated into any secret societies and official esoteric knowledge. Almost anyone participating in Greg’s cult (see my other comment here) – because we talk about these things having been self-taught and not having taked any oaths of secrecy – are coming from a profane position, despite being interested in and discussing the sacred, i.e. the hidden.

        1. Aside from ‘frequency of incidence,’ meaning how regularly they are used in one way vs. the other during this conversation (which I don’t really have a comment about), I am unfamiliar with your phrase “higher and lower frequencies.” Care to rephrase?

          1. m.gyroscopecaduces Rephrase: Lets assume emotions carry a frequency!! Profane-lower, heavier frequency equivalent to the visible material dense world, thus containing a more negative effect and affect. Sacred-higher frequency, equivalent to the esoteric containing the positive, thus a more positive effect and affect. If we live in a dualistic society which we currently do, would it not behoove those in control to keep the masses at a lower negative frequency? This would enable them to control the positive frequency by what ever secret and or sacred methods are at their disposal?

            1. Is not all of anything that can be perceived of a dualistic nature, in that a perceiver is essential? Out of the One comes two. Out of the two come the ten thousand things. High frequencies, or low, the whole of it is the sacred, dividing it up, profane. When one would pretend the sacred, one divides the whole.

              I like what Alan Watts said about how we’re always trying to eff the ineffable. We seem to approach even the non-material in a materialist mode. Factions arise. Being is set aside for a sense of doing. The sacred is ignored, we seek positional advantage.

              Show me the sacred, here, now. Everything goes quiet.

              Ah, I see.


              1. Satyagraha, yes I agree, in that the whole of this entire process of the universe is scared, and yet this we may not always fully understand until the end of our lives. The whole of it is quite magnificent to say the least, but meanwhile how we live healthy, loving lives with positive intent on a day to day basis is the key here. Once the perceiver (you or me) becomes individuated (the realization of the Ego during childhood) gains it’s awareness and one becomes the two leading to a multitude of potentialities . Once the perceiver applies it’s intent, with its many potentialities manifestation occurs. This process of intent can happen with and without knowing, (another wards sometimes things or occurrences come into our sphere without being fully aware that we brought it in with our intent) This thing intent (thought) carries with it a vibration or frequency giving us the result of our intent, wether positive or negative. I have heard that a frequency will attract its like. If a person runs a low negative energy, it may unknowingly attract it’s like in another person (misery loves company so to speak). We experience life through emotion which carries high and low frequency (love being a high frequency, fear being low frequency) Seems as though we are constantly being bombarded with low frequency energy through manipulation of media and the like on a daily bases, and carrying it into our private life. Sounds as though energy can be manipulated here wether or not in the end one might consider it all sacred can be considered debatable. I am only considering that there is a possibility that energy can be manipulated by others simply for the sake of gaining the upper hand for ones self and not for the betterment of man kind. It begs to consider how this energy can be harnessed by those in the know so to speak. I also think the topic of energetic time lines is interesting, which come by way of choice, and requires more thought with our intent versus pure emotion resulting in better choices, and therefore a better out come of our intent. Apologies for being so long winded!!

                1. Once the perceiving becomes identified as the perceiver, the body-identified illusion of the doer takes on its virtual existence. The perceiving never stopped. The perceiving is the actuality. The perceiver, a fiction. This can be seen at any instant in the present. The question becomes, do I really want to stay believing myself to be what I am not? As I am, there is no question of “how.” Seeing into what never was, though it was once believed, the non-existent ego falls from questions such as intent. In being something, the other arises.

                  As the perceiver, the tendency is to approach every question backwards. Actions arising from actuality loose intent. I could say that the actuality is love, and that sounds nice, but the words alone are meaningless. Yet the choice is always there to be something, or just simply be. If religion could live up to its meaning of making real, would we not shed our illusions, living loving lives without intent? Religion, as it is, doesn’t do the trick. It comes down to seeing and deciding. If I am not this or that, then being the seeing will establish me in what is. What is cannot be spoken or written. It is without a doer or its intentions.

                  Pardon my tendency to spontaneity. I just start typing. I find I write for myself. If it does anything for anyone else; far out.

              2. Yes, but yes. It is all sacred. It is all you.

                w o m w o m wom wom wom wm wm wm m m m m m m m m m m m m

                How was that hit?

                I <3 noble gases.

            2. I think it makes for a fine metaphor, where higher is positive and lower is negative. I would ask a chakra-centric healer how they feel it applies to their experience with people. Perhaps a raiki master, or someone who works with energy such as an acupuncturist or a mesmerist. But I think it’d only be so helpful, as culture-specific metaphors are concerned. For instance the first and second (lower) chakras are only thought to be profane in the taboo sense, as a matter of cultural baggage that we inherited from Christian control mechanisms. Buddhist teachers do not associate breaking wind with a bad day, nor sex for that matter. In fact the healthy alignment of the chakras is an aspiration that gives them all equal importance.

              But the idea of higher and lower frequencies applying to profane or sacred aspects of consciousness is a stretch I’d shy away from. The resonant frequency of your spleen, for instance, need not be lower in measured Hertz than the resonant frequency of your pineal gland, for instance, though it may be the case.

              To put it colloquially, a happy, healthy, awakened third eye ain’t nothin’ without a healthy, happy bowel. In this way your anus is as sacred as your heart, so perhaps let’s not try to profane it by associating it with low emotional states.

              If by negative affect, you mean a taboo emotional state such as depression or shame, then I’d have to disagree. I actually associate a depressive disposition to be fundamental to sacred states of mind, intelligence and creativity. An artist who doesn’t know melancholy, or isn’t trying to compensate for some existential shame, just can’t be curious enough, tormented enough, or inspired enough to come up with anything remotely transcendent. In this way, the metaphor definitely falls apart.

              If anything, simple depression is institutionally induced in order to addict people to SSRI’s, and, by unintended consequence, to suppress the sacred mode. But this is where cannabis and the entheogens get into the ring to fight with euphoria and flex the sacred mode in waking life. For the time being, these alternative empowering therapies are on the upswing and gaining legitimacy and being studied. Let’s keep our fingers crossed that their ascent continues and legitimacy increases. The healers who do use them sincerely wish to improve people’s lives with their use.

              Hope that’s a satisfactory answer.

              1. m.gyroscopecaduceus Thank you for taking the time to respond, its appreciated. I am somewhat aware of the examples you have given of chakra energy, organ energy as well as the emotional. Difficult balance to achieve in ones quest to connect the mind, body and soul. And yes your so right on with depression, it can almost certainly be a gift giving transformative experience if you let it. Because it sucks so much, it’s nice to know the result can manifest us into a wiser, more creative, fine tuned ( tuned being the operative word here) loving being. You can’t have the positive without the negative I guess. When I think about personal transformation, I also think of this as an inside job. I’m aware we emanate our own personal energy, yet what about the collective, and energy that is directed at us. Being bombarded with fear tactics carries an energy that most certainly feels heavy to me and effects the collective. Learning to think for ones self can be a huge key, but those in power seem to have the upper hand and I somehow feel they harness planetary energy. In our current state it appears to be more malefic than benevolent. As with the energy of the chakras and the organs, so do the planets carry their own personal energy. The answer must just be in the stars!!

  3. This March 30 is the perfect day that I have found this episode.
    I just read at my Grandfather, a Freemason, at his gravestone,
    on 3/3… I read to him Chapter XXX to him, from Morals and Dogma.

    As he mentions ‘The Secrets of the Dead’ and 13s.
    Well Greg, you’ll see. (this ‘event’ has reached ‘critical mass’).
    Occult Enthusiasts, indeed. The gain is in my eye.

    I have to ask THC+ers and Greg.
    What do you all make of synchronicity?
    Second, what do you think of interdimensional entities?

    1. Maynard has a lot of references in his music that require a working knowledge of at least introductory Buddhist thought as well as western esoteric thought to catch. One of my favorite bands. It was interesting that he referenced them.

  4. I wish I were in the room with you guys to interject/contribute so many times during your talk. Too many times to enumerate.

    Anywho, good subject matter, and more importantly, healthy skepticism.

    The word religion got thrown around a lot in this conversation. It’s a pretty loose and meaningless word, more built on its connotations than its denotations. When taken on the face of its popular conception, something like ‘institutional establishment orthodox approach to spiritual matters,’ being accused of being religious is not so helpful to someone who identifies as a materialist atheist, for instance. That person will immediately reject the idea that CERN has any religious under- or overtones, despite a quaint sculpture of Siva decorating the edifice.

    But let’s look at it from the perspective of the word’s basic etymology for a brief meditation. The word’s latin root is the same as ligature, or knot. Re-ligio is a re-binding. This relates to the metaphoric confining prison of a society’s mythos. The body is the first bondage and the miracle that enables life. You get a body, you get life, but it also limits you, because life implies death. So you are bound and imprisoned in the gnostic sense that the body is a prison. The re-binding that proceeds from that is dualistic: it happens partly in the mind and it happens partly in the social typologies that are dictated by a dominant mythos. Whether there’s a pope/spokesman for the divine saying, “you will believe what I say that the world is the center of the universe,” or whether you get a scientist making their dogmatic cosmological claims, the effect is confinement.

    As an artist who sides with Jack White on this matter, I must add to this the maxim that the more confinement willfully imposed upon your engagement of the work, the greater ease with which the emergent object can manifest coherently and authentically. Confinement can be enabling as much as it can be discouraging.

    Willard Van Orman Quine, a logician from Illinois of the mid-century, in an essay called, “On What There Is,” talks about the nature of all human constructions as fundamentally mythic. Myth is merely the web of reality composed of our active word-palaces. So even scientific thought comprises myth. This, of course, requires a rejection of the popular idea of myth as a synonym for falsehood, and an embrace of the anthropological understanding: all social constructions, from gossip to journalism to cosmology, are myths and all culture is composed of cults. (In light of this, it is leavening and liberating to ponder that we are all members of Greg’s cult, differing in content from the cults of Mickey Mouse, Jesus Christ, Donald Trump, or Jack White.)

    So now, when we discuss the “religion of the elite,” it can no longer be assumed that we’re speaking of the “conscious understanding of people committed to/bound to science.” Religion is usually invisible to the conscious mind. In fact, we can begin to understand that “their” religion is as invisible to them as ours is to us. When invoke “our religion,” of course I refer to the way that our society has rebound all of us. We all bow our heads in vast rituals of penitence to the omniscient god that is represented by our mobile devices. (We prefer to forget that it is a military, imperial, and reductive god.) Do we consciously and proudly acknowledge our fealty? Of course not. We prefer to deny that it controls us and we perennially make excuses for it. But in fact we are all bound by the religion of the internet and its portable tether, our precious little pocket computers. The same level of abstraction, compartmentalization and deniability exists for any person working at university science lab who thinks that s/he exists free of religion. All varieties of theism are only one set of religions. If the religion is visible to anyone of the “elites,” at all, maybe it’s Dick Cheney, or the late David Rockefeller. Who knows.

    (It’s also entirely possible, like the Kek/Pepe phenomena that Greg has described revealing itself through random number generation, that the spirit of the object comes from no human intention at all, except for the way that it is subverted by people, in the secondary refrains, claiming it for their own machinations, as if its some nazi-like figure. A warn anyone agains confusing ‘chaos’ with ‘naziism.’ It’s a slipper slope to stupidity.)

    I think these are important distinctions to make, so as to avoid the tendency and temptation to consider these things with an us/them mentality. Whether you like it or not, you are a member of cults and you have a religion. And so do the puppet masters of empire, about which only a few may have cognitive awareness. Only once you recognize that can you begin to make choices of your own will as to which you praise, which you bow to, and which you will reject.


    1. My editing of the last two paragraphs fell to shit and I didn’t recognize it before the editor window closed. Please read forgivingly. I also meant to write, “When I invoke ‘our religion,’…”

    2. Good post, sometimes I think it’s important to make the distinctions as well. If we’re not all on the same page, then a term used that loosely may give two different persons two completely different understandings.

  5. In Washington DC, the Meridian is 16th St (Meridian Hill park is built there overlooking the city), and there’s the Ellipse park right down the street, where the meridian crosses the ellipse is white house, which makes sense for the white house being DCs midheaven.
    Does that make sense to you too ?

  6. Awesome, intelligently spoken guest. And an amazing interviewer as usual. Trying to go to sleep, but that’s not going to happen for about another hour.

    Also, the guest’s voice and inflections really remind me of Freeman Fly. lol

  7. This guy didn’t figure out that ‘something is wrong’ until the Boston Bombing…. and you’re listening to him? His muddying of any waters you want to point at? C’mon! Wake up.

    1. Hey, everyone wakes up at different times, you can’t blame someone for not realizing what’s going on, you can only blame people who purposely force themselves to not wake up.

      I literally woke up while watching a Katy Perry music video and reading the comments, well after 9/11 and everything else. It can happen at anytime, anywhere.

  8. I rarely comnent in many forums and when i do i like to take the piss because I am bored and a shit stirrer, but in this instance i have to say that i found this particular episode very thought provoking and a must listen to again when nicely toasted.
    Thank you Mr. Carlwood
    Thank you Mr. Michael Joseph

  9. Also. What i find a little off kilter is the huge amount of information Michael Joseph has digested and expelled with astounding clarity in such a self confessed small amount of time.
    The things he has produced on YouTube, the reasearch the time consuming efforts towards satisfying his own interests and not to mention his own music (which is ok but very disjointed and a mish mosh of styles) but that is a different avenue in and of itself. Either he is very well off financially with time to burn or he isn’t telling the whole truth. So the conclusion to my drug addled rambling is this, given that there are aspects to this person needing clarity, this episode is as good as any cool science fiction book capable of lifting you up and carrying you off in thought provoking paths.

    1. You can go from zero to astrophysicist in about 8 years and that is with studying unrelated topics along the way. If you really applied yourself to studying something you could digest quite a lot of info and several books in 4 or five years. You’re not wrong, I just don’t think the understanding of the information, or, in many cases the lack of a clear interpretation, is the guy’s issue.

  10. Mark Passio’s “What on Earth is Happening”…..absolutely kick ass stuff. The Peace Revolution Podcast (on Pod-o-matic) with Richard Grove….INSANELY EXTENSIVE. Both, in my opinion, are damn near mandatory for truth seekers.

  11. They do eat infants. Check out the Hempstead children’s testimony.

    They do worship Saturn, they believe their Anunnaki small “g” gods came from Saturn just before they colonized Earth.

    White leftists do not say everything is racists, blacks say that. He should find someone else to hate. Maybe hate blacks for that. Mark Passio is a self-righteous, judgmental know it all or so he thinks.

    Their are at least 3 gods in the bible, all Anunnaki, those who from heaven came. The Romans created Jesus, no evidence of his existance, birth around the time of his supposedly birth. Read the most recent translated Sumarian texts (not Sitchin). Those texts were translated into ancient Aramaic & ancient Hebrew, Which became the bible, both ancient languages have no vowels, so those translations can be interpretated six ways to sunday, so to say. What are the bible believers going to think, when those very long life Anunnaki present themselves, and say, “we are the gods you have been worshipping”?

    In the more recently translated Sumerian texts, you will find, Jahovah, Yahweh, & Enlil are the same person, and that Enlil performs horrific cruelties on his own followers, just like they do today.

    Basically michael is just another right-winger who judges other people who are being lied to by the Controllers, and leaves the Controllers free of any blame. What good does that do to bring the criminals down? He’s a just another fool.

  12. The talk of the Masonic symbol being a possible representation of the world’s shape was thought-provoking. I’m not attached to globe or flat Earth model, but something struck me as obvious…

    If this image is illustrating curved geometry meeting flat geometry, isn’t this just showing a dome over a plane; in much the same way the firmament would meet the Earth in the flat Earth model? That’s how it looks to me anyway.

  13. I loved this one. lots of interesting perspectives. Which way did the rabbit go, anyway?

    Also, I just subscribed to his YouTube channel. Now he has 1,192 subscribers. Good show Greg, good show.

  14. Stonkingly good episode. The conversation was electric. Great work Greg and Michael. Definitely be giving his channel a sub.

    A lot of what Michael was saying shone a light on the murky areas of my mind, where the half gestated, too hard thought forms dwell. Ideas such as everything being both true and untrue at the same time and more importantly the idea that whether a thing objectively exists or not is irrelevant – if the idea exists, the thing exists.

    This episode definitely gave me some frame work and areas to explore in terms of helping infant ideas crystallize into bigger ones.

  15. Cool guest, I’m going to check out his stuff. I’m from a more orthodox view, I like that word to describe it. But to comment on the Ouija board stuff, there’s something to it, and that whole realm. A lot of those people who hold these orthodox views are not reading their source material. Even the mainline church preachers. Paul warned of messing with the spirits, because they could be tricksters. He didn’t say don’t do it, but warned of it. But he said if you do consult with the spirits, to test the spirits and see their true intent. I’m never offended with different views, but a lot of these subjects that are covered I find extremely close to a lot of the ancient religious texts. But the connections are never made. Iv read the gnostic texts/nag Hamadi library and more recently, the Kolbrin Bible. My views change every day with what I learn, and why shouldn’t it?

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