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Where are you thinking of moving to and WHY

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hisich
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(@hisich)
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Thanks, was hoping there would be a thread relating to the topic of places to move to. I was born in CA & my job keeps me here, but the politics & demographics have been shit for a while & are only getting worse, so staying for the long-term might not be an option.

I lived in Branson, MO, for about 5 years--this is app. 30-40 mins south of Springfield.  Have some contacts there so that (along w/Arkansas) are possibilites.

I recently visited and travelled throughout the mid-South, liked Tennessee a lot, Ashville of NC was great, and eastern Virginia stood out as well.  Haven't done deep research though.  Texas & Florida seem like they've gotten too popular & too many Libtards moving there might be a problem, I also worry about demographics (white people REALLY need to get over being ashamed of wanting to be around "their own kind").

Gotta run, will read thread more in-depth later.

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AstronautRob
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@hisich Awesome thanks for joining in the convo. This topic has been on my mind for a long time, and hearing others talk about moving and where they want want to move makes me interested in their thought process and research methods. I know there is no one perfect place to be or move to, but I think getting the most data we can on areas, towns, cities, etc., can be helpful in focusing your research or really just getting a starting place to begin looking. I agree with your statements on TX and FL. I also think that they have become the destination states for people how are leaving "blue states" and it will soon change the demographics and politics in those areas. Not to mention they have become way overpriced as real estate companies/agents are not dumb and are trying to capitalize on this mass migration. Plus, in my opinion at least, I think FL has some of the worst weather out of any state.

I like those areas you mentioned, Tennessee is beautiful and you can find great farmland there. Virginia is similar in my opinion. I think either of those spots was be good choices as you have a greater chance of getting varied topography on your land which is always nice. I'd be very interested to hear your thought process and findings when you start doing research in those areas. 

How did you like Branson when you lived there? I've heard it's kind of a tourist town or w.e., but that's just from my parents who visit there. Northern Arkansas has some very good choices, especially around Eureka Springs (I've also heard this town is a tourist town too). Lots of water, good hardiness zone, trees, out of tornado ally, etc., and not bad laws, similar to MO. 

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alex trismegistus
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Posted by: @astronautrob

Arkansas and Missouri are similar to me so I group them together - Pros: prices, prices, prices; cheap for what you can get (amount of land, niceness or house, amount of water i.e. stocked pond, etc., trees, already established infrastructure, etc.) there doesn't seem to be a comparison to any other state, the prices in these two areas seem to still be lowest for what you get...

And maybe that is because people don't want to move here, hey I get it, but my question is are there any better places? Or at least, are they places that allow you to survive the best going to be any different? It's going to be in the middle or no-where, and granted you could be closer to a big city like maybe Dallas or Houston (MAYBE Austin, but again find me farm-able land with a good water source and trees for a decent price somewhere around Austin, idt it's possible that far south), but is that any different then being outside Springfield, MO? Idk maybe it is, I've never been to Springfield so let me know. What I'm saying is country culture is country culture no matter where you go. I've lived in Texas and Louisiana, both in the country, and it was racist af. I mean idk how you live somewhere where you can survive and not have to deal with those things. Anyway I digress....

Pros (cont.): water, trees, etc., are plentiful in these areas so no problem there, decent space/selection (especially in Southern MO), decent cancer rates (More so in MO), more farm-able land (less large pasture land), good pop density, decent marijuana laws (MO is decriminalized for 10grams and has medical, similar in AR), kind of forgotten about states which again could be good or bad hard to say

Cons - Culture suspect even in bigger cities? (not sure on this one just heard people say it sucks), not a lot of pasture as mentioned above, WEATHER, bugs, etc., can still run in to swampy land/pasture that periodically floods, etc., not as good gun laws (don't think MO or AR is constitutional carry), still has some weird laws (abortion, etc.), Tornado ally when getting in to more northern MO

I can speak to this, as someone who moved from a nearby megacity to Arkansas.  I originally started off in Northwest Arkansas, near the university in Fayetteville, but bought a house and some land an hour south near Fort Smith. 

Pros: echoing a lot of what you mentioned - access to clean water, I only have a little less than half an acre but I've got seven large trees - wood is plentiful, as are fish, game, wild plants, etc. MJ is a bit pricey to buy in the shops in AR, but very obtainable if you have the money - otherwise it isn't too difficult to find through other methods.  Cost of living is also low relative to the cities.  People are nice and helpful here for the most part - and they are resourceful.  Many understand the land and have been working it for generations, still plenty of hard workers and tough folks out this way.  Recreationally if you enjoy the outdoors you can have a great time here.  Kayaking, rock climbing, spelunking, mountain biking, just about any type of outdoor activity can be found in some shape or form here.  I also enjoy early american history (as many of you who listened to the ep may be familiar by now), and there is always something new to explore here. 

Cons: small rural southern towns are what they are.  not going to find too many places to buy groceries outside of walmart, unless you plan on using online shipping for specific products, you're gonna make due with what you can find in towns.  that said, if your intention is homesteading anyway that shouldn't matter too much in the long run.  this summer has definitely been pretty brutal weather-wise, though it is slightly worse here in the river valley with the humidity.  Prepare to deal with ticks, chiggers, snakes, wasps, and other nasty critters - they are manageable but definitely an adjustment if you're not ready for it.  most real estate listings will show you the potential to be in a flood zone, so unless you are willingly living in an area prone to flooding, it can be avoided (outside of the mudfloods of course).  I haven't been closer than a few dozen miles away from a tornado, but that is just something you learn to live with in these parts.  Also you will pay state income tax here - as well as property taxes on vehicles. 

 

Frame these places in a historical context.  For a long time, this area of the world was where disaffected soldiers and homesteaders chose to hide away from the grasps of whatever power player was trying to take their lives or their money.  Most people, when traveling west - would either go north through Iowa, or south.  Geographically this area is lush and natural, but also harsh and hard to traverse.  In the old days, if you wanted to disappear and start a new life in private - this was one of the better places to do so.  Its why bootleggers at the turn of the century could simultaneously run moonshine produced in caves here, and (allegedly) build large hot springs bathhouses to escape the cities.  Its why native americans have been living here for tens of thousands of years before we showed up. 

 

In all - I am much happier here in a rural small town with my own home than I would ever be continuing to slum it in apartments in big cities.  Are there drawbacks?  Absolutely.  Does it outweigh the current and potential benefits?  Not for me.

 
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AstronautRob
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@alex_trismegistus Right on brother, I appreciate the very detailed response. This was exactly what I was looking for. A few questions if I may...

Concerning medical marijuana in AR, how hard is it get a med card? Do you have to go see a regular MD or do they "med card" clinics and doctors that specifically handle that? Where I live now in CO, it's stupid easy to get a card and you don't have to see a MD just a "red card" doctor who basically signs paperwork and submits it to the state. Just wondering as I generally grow my own cannabis but like to know the details of a states medical marijuana policy and how it is actually implemented. It also looks like in AR that although Medical Cannabis is approved it's still not legal to grow in your home, is that correct? Do you find that to be the case with people you know or do you know people who still grow their own and are left alone, etc.? So weird they would allow medical but not allow you to grow some of your own medicine.

Man, the outdoor activity sounds dope though that's what I needed to hear. I moved from Louisiana (which has little outdoor activity other then finishing) to Colorado (which has tons of outdoor activity) and it's something I value greatly in my life now. Thank you for that information. 

Good cons list too, it covers a lot of what would probably be the biggest concerns for someone moving to area like AR. You hit the nail on the head with the small towns description, but as you say it wouldn't be much of a concern if you are planning on homesteading. You would deal with a lot of those kinds of things moving anywhere out in "the country". And yes, the flood zone thing if a big concern. For anyone reading this, or if your interested, there is a site https://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/ which you can go on and get the soil composition, flood data, water retention data, basically all the geological and topographic data for any given AOI in the United States, and it is much more accurate then anything you'll find from a real estate agent or on Zillow or w.e. You can just plug in the address, set he AOI, and you get a massive amount of data on that area's geology, topography, etc. It's been really useful in my research.

Do you currently homestead or have any animals on the half acre you live on?

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alex trismegistus
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@astronautrob 

getting a medical card in AR is pretty easy - they have clinics that are basically rubber stamp offices, or you can find a PCP here in town that will hook you up.  If you don't have an explicit medical condition (with associated medical records) as listed on the state website, you can get one for "PTSD" which is an extra $100 and is a questionnaire that just about anyone would qualify for if you play it smart.  Medical cards have to be renewed yearly, average total cost is going to be between 200-400/year depending on who you go with and what your "diagnosis" is.  Additionally - once you get your medical card in Arkansas you can apply and purchase a 30 day pass to buy in Oklahoma ($99 for 30 days).  The benefit there is the prices and availability of MJ in OK is actually much better than AR, so if you are buying large amounts it is actually more cost effective to purchase in OK.  Where I live is quite literally a few minutes drive to OK, so it is a popular option here - more difficult the farther away you are from OK. It still isn't legal to grow your own plants in AR, however IIRC you can grow up to 6 plants for personal use in Oklahoma.  However, unless you have nosy snitch neighbors, or piss off the local government I would imagine it would be fairly easy to grow a plant or two on a plot of land discreetly and with little issue.  Probably not something I would do in a suburban neighborhood, but if you've got a few acres on a rural property you're probably going to be left alone.  Lately I have seen people around town gathering signatures to put recreational MJ on the ballot this year - so its possible that we could have that soon.  The major issues with MJ is since the people handling this are corrupt small town rural politicians, palms still have to be greased and there is still a lot of hurdles to jump through to get licenses to open shops.  As an example - medical MJ was passed in AR in 2016, but the first shop in the state didn't open until 2019.  

 

I am not currently homesteading at this time, my wife and I are expecting our first child in a few weeks so most of our priorities have gone towards that.  Eventually I will begin building a garden, and will look into some animals as well.  My neighbor owns a 13 acre pasture behind my land, and I've been buying fresh eggs and beef from his cows.  This is not an unusual circumstance - if you look into local networks it is easy to track down folks like these and work out arrangements to obtain just about anything you are looking for.  If you don't have the means to homestead, if you posses other skills or goods you can likely operate in a gray market/barter relationship.  

 

If you end up narrowing down your decision and need some input on specific areas, feel free to DM me.  Living relatively close to NWA (Fayetteville, Bentonville, etc) will give you the best of both worlds - opportunities to homestead with good land, but close enough to a reasonably developed civilization for access to specific products, entertainment, well paying jobs, and a decent restaurant or two.  However, in my experience trying to purchase a home the prices in that area are rising quickly relative to the rest of the state, as it is a popular landing spot, due to Walmart and Tyson HQ in Bentonville/Rogers and many Texas and big city transplants moving there.  Due to the geography and how the cities are laid out, there is little development to be had in the cities so you will either need to get lucky and outbid, or find a piece of land a ways out and build your own.  Affordable homes can be found to the north, close to the border of MO, or to the south/southeast of Fayetteville.  That said - compared to the rest of the country it is still a great deal more affordable than most.  

I chose Fort Smith because you can get a lot more value for a home, at a lower cost than NWA.  It is still only 1-2 hours away, if you absolutely need something it is obtainable, or two hours to Tulsa (the closest large city).  It is less populated and less "modern" than NWA, and if you want a decent meal you'll likely just have to learn how to cook (something that most Arkansans will tell you anyway).  Covid nonsense is nonexistent here - compared to NWA where there are still many people who "comply" with the narrative (state university influence, as well as large corporate influence).  If for whatever reason they decide to spin up that nonsense again, you won't have much to worry about here.  I haven't worn a mask in probably a year or more, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.  I'm not sure I would live anywhere else in the state besides these two regions - we looked into Little Rock and we weren't thrilled with it, though your results may vary.  

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AstronautRob
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@alex_trismegistus Ah well Congrats my friend on the coming babe! That sounds really exciting and I wish you and your wife the best. Also forgot to put in the last post, get caught up with survival stuff, that I really enjoyed your episode and appreciate the history aspect you bring to the convo. Great stuff and is something I am def interested in. Over the years here in CO my wife and I have explored a bunch of old abandoned mines or production sites that has been super interesting and it's something we are excited about a place that would have similar historical sites to explore. Do you know if you have any mounds or mound monuments, etc., that are out by Fort Smith or AR in general? My wife has gotten into mound builders lore, etc., lately and says that area has some sites (maybe more MO...?) I guess. Idk.

Sounds like the Medical/growing scene is good there so that's a big plus. Huge stoner here so that's something that ranks pretty high on my list. I can't see myself going to state where it is totally illegal, like Texas. it would be too weird after living in CO for 10 years. Like going back in time. So it's dope that AR, MO areas are at least loose with the medical cards and what not. Usually translate to the rest of the enforcement side of things when concerning cannabis, i.e. growing, etc.

Overall I really appreciate all the information, this was the kind of of convo I was hoping to find with this topic post because now it has opened up a whole new area for us to look at and consider. Price is very much a deciding factor and it does seem to be somewhat cheaper around the Fort Smith/South of Fayetteville area. Especially when compared to Texas or Florida, those places have gone off the rails lately. They might correct if the housing market cont. to go the way it is, but maybe not. Blackrock is readying that 30 billion to buy up the housing market so who knows what's going to happen in the future. It will be interesting to see what goes on with them trying to really implement this crap reset. Idk, maybe we'll have to start an intentional community or something, go back to the commune roots. We'll see.

Anyway we are planning our visit out to that area in Oct, we are going to stay in a couple different bnbs and explore around AR and MO so when that time comes I will def take you up on that offer for some more specific advice, thank you I really appreciate that.

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josh785
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@astronautrob ... my folk just moved from Bella Vista in NW Arkansas, one thing to watch out for around the man made lakes in NWA is the rocky ground... their house was pretty neat and had a huge yard, but nothing of value would grow, under the one inch of dirt seemed to be all rocks. I discovered their house (when I had to do some repairs to sell) was sitting on posts and cinderblocks which was a little shocking to me, as most of the houses in KS are on slabs and/or have basements. I seems like a pretty odd way to build anything meant to last. My dad just told me a lot of people do have gardens there, but they usually have raised beds or brought in soil from somewhere. ... don't get me wrong, I always enjoy AR, but if you buying sight unseen, really look at the foundations of the houses and the soil out that way. 🙂

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AstronautRob
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@josh785 Ok right on, that is some really good information. I wonder if in order to create the manmade lake they had to have that rocky "soil" put in all around the area so the water would drain in to the lake instead of going into the soil. Good to know though because when looking there are TONS of what look to be manmade lakes when looking out in that area. Never would of thought to look under the topsoil though, thanks man!

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alex trismegistus
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Posted by: @astronautrob

Over the years here in CO my wife and I have explored a bunch of old abandoned mines or production sites that has been super interesting and it's something we are excited about a place that would have similar historical sites to explore. Do you know if you have any mounds or mound monuments, etc., that are out by Fort Smith or AR in general? My wife has gotten into mound builders lore, etc., lately and says that area has some sites (maybe more MO...?) I guess. Idk.

There is a mound site here called Spiro mounds, its about a 20 minute drive over the OK border from here.  It is...extremely disappointing.  The museum is nothing but replicas, the mounds themselves are not well kept - when I went all the mounds were overgrown, and half wrecked which was attributed to a local construction company 100 years ago that sought to remove the mounds to put up real estate and were stopped before they could completely destroy it.  Compared to sites like Cahokia outside of St Louis (which I haven't been to yet) it is certainly not very impressive.  I did get a funny throwaway response from the guy working there when I asked him about the giant's bones.  Interestingly enough that site is owned by the Oklahoma state Historical Society - which is the only historical society in the country that is recognized by the Smithsonian.  Perhaps this should tell you exactly why nothing you see at a place like Spiro mounds could be accurate - or at the very least they have some very spooky gatekeepers.  A few years ago when I discovered the place for the first time it was closed right after flooding.  I was in the parking lot putting my next destination into the GPS when a marked vehicle seemingly appeared out of nowhere and followed me all the way back onto the main highway.  No idea if it was government, security, or what but it was a little weird for there to be that kind of surveillance and protection - especially in the middle of the afternoon on a weekday in a tiny town like Spiro.  I wonder if perhaps the flooding may have revealed some type of archeological discovery that they didn't want anyone to know about...

 

In general, I have found a ton of interesting stuff to explore in the great state of Arkansas.  In no particular order, I have written about them on stolenhistory.  For anyone interested, here's a link dump.

https://stolenhistory.net/threads/the-crescent-hotel-1886-eureka-springs-ar.831/

https://stolenhistory.net/threads/giant-stone-cut-blocks-in-northwest-arkansas.1616/

https://stolenhistory.net/threads/monte-ne-an-arkansan-retreat-in-ruins.1657/

https://stolenhistory.net/threads/subaico-abbey-in-logan-county-arkansas-a-diamond-in-the-rough.4434/

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Dan B
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I have been looking for areas/states with cheap land, good people, reasonable politics and less taxes. I'm in Los Angeles right now and have wanted to get out of CA ever since Trump ran and got elected. The jobs I wanted no longer appealed to me after all the libs' masks came off (before double-masking) and their true selves came out. I didn't even vote for or support him but I got a lot of (what I perceived to be suspicious) looks from people any time I disagreed with or didn't openly support the woke hivemind that seems to exist in every office in L.A. Even guys I used to respect came to work bitching about Orange Man being a bigot and the Russians rigging the election and then freaked out over the Covid plandemic.

Anyway I just wanted to add that I'm from around the same part of Missouri as Greg and also lived in Columbia, MO before So Cal. I have some knowledge of central and eastern MO and still debate whether I want to move back there or look into somewhere that I have no connections but may be a better fit. In Missouri land is cheap, guns are friends, deer and small game are plentiful, water and small lakes can be found all over and it has a lot of trees. Also most of the people in the state are friendly as long as you're friendly towards them (don't act like you are better than them even if you believe you are). A lot of regions aren't as welcoming to outsiders.

That being said, it is also not the most desirable place to live during the time before SHTF. Some cons: the weather isn't pleasant most of the time, occasional tornados, bugs/mosquitos/snakes, the food and culture kinda suck overall, cannabis isn't totally legal, it has a major fault line in the southeast, nuclear reactor in the middle and a state income tax over 5%. Away from the cities and college towns it's mostly people who come home after work (if not on welfare/disability) and binge on food, alcohol and TV plus some bikers and meth heads here and there. From my experience, there aren't many people that I would want to live next to if they started getting desperate. It would be a nice surprise to find a community with a lot of ancap types back there though. After the next crypto bull run, maybe I'll start one. Just have to make enough to do that and outbid Monsanto for ownership of the politicians. Lol

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AstronautRob
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@dbittick This is Gold, thank you Dan. Really great information, especially the fault line and nuclear reactor info, that is the kind of stuff I am really interested in and did not know. Thank you. It sounds bad in CA and I hope you can get out of that area soon. Have you started looking at/researching other places that you think might be better fit for you then going back to MO?

It's funny you mention living in a place that will be desirable during the time BEFORE SHTF (Like it), or even if shit doesn't ever hit he fan (SDEHTF...also I def think shit is hitting the fan but just for argument sake). I lived in rural Louisiana in my later teen years after having lived/moved all over the world and it was like I went back to the early 1900's or something. People are friendly, yes, but only if you look (and later on if they get to know you) act a certain way. If you deviated from that it was just like the hivemind but in reverse (or just the right side of it...?). Not saying MO is like that or anything, just saying that I've experienced that living in a rural setting and it makes me somewhat cautious about moving to a place that would have a similar feel. But honestly, you're probably going to deal with that in any rural setting in mostly any state so idk what one can really do about it. I will say in Western states, like here in CO, the "rural" setting seems to be a BIT more diverse (kind of) and a BIT less religiously dogmatic (kind of). This kind of lends itself to it being overall less racist, but again I say kind of and use all that lightly because it can get real "country" out here too for sure. So not the say CO is better than any other place because it def has it downsides, I just see a little less of that "right" hivemind mentality in the rural areas here. So yea all that to say, this is one of the biggest things we are factoring in when trying to decide where to move. We want to find a place that's in the middle so to speak, if that even exist. Maybe the key is just to be so far away from people you achieve that anyways...? Idk if that's really possible either but it's hard with everything being so polarized, everyone feeling attacked, etc. Maybe someone will get their shit together and start an intentional community with that in mind, idk, but that'd be dope.

What are ancap types?

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