THC Anglea Hattery Earl Smith Policing Black Bodies Podcast on The Higherside Chats

Dr. Angela J. Hattery & Dr. Earl Smith | Policing Black Bodies, Prison Inc., & The Poverty Trap

Show Notes


Dr. Angela Hattery & Dr. Earl Smith are award -winning professors and sociologists with over 30 years experience, and 13 books published. Together they have been researching and teaching about social inequalities for quite some time, and their vast knowledge and experience provides a set of critical lenses for interrogating, understanding and developing policy proposals to address our country’s most imperative and far-reaching social ills.

Check out their website for more:


PLUS Content

  • The debt peonage system.
  • Exoneration data.
  • Reefer madness & racism.
  • Black families.
  • Social norms and tax policies that perpetuate poverty and keep the poor/middle class from establishing multi-generational wealth.

57 Responses

  1. I'm sure we'll have some listeners will see this episode and think, "This again? Why is THC sounding more like NPR?" 

    Well, I understand. I just thought that while Angela J. Davis was great at talking about the criminal justice system specifically, there was a lot of related context that didn't get covered and I wanted to try again.

    Sometimes things happen in my personal life that cause me to feel a sense of responsibility on covering something, despite what's trendy or what's easy for the audience I've attracted. I also try to highlight conspiratorial content that conspiracy culture tends to miss. This is some of the stuff that I think qualifies. I drift between what's fun and what's valuable, but I want the show to be both, and I get that some listeners would rather me drop this kind of thing and stick to moon bases and reptilian summoning. 

    Don't worry too much about some big, over-arching "change of direction" over a couple of unexpected shows. We're getting back to the weird. I promise. 


  2. It's all weird, think of yourself as an alien landed here , trying to figure out which way is up.\

    giving up and then trying to figure which way is out,.as the curtin keeps moving, and everyone keeps shouting.,

    and you can no longer feel your legs.

  3. First off, I think this was one of the best episodes this year, apart from Gordon White.  and so many important points, right?

    My one comment is that it would have been improved if there were fewer instances of  “…right?” 
    as soon as the interview started and I heard Dr Hattery’s voice I tried to guess how many times I would hear “…right?”  My liver can’t take it. 
    ive been noticing for quite some time whenever I hear a liberal white professor on an alt interview, get ready for the “…right?”




  4. Gregger, Whaddup, Its Eddie(Salzberry Stake from the final joint session [Wayfair,wearing masks to ease the tension,  Donald Marshall, Fuck Qanon, etc.. were our talking points). Anyway, I haven't even listened to the show yet but I just want to say thatvno matter what any fucktard says to you about negative about this topic, tell . Tell them to eat dick and continue doing what you think is right.. we're all just guessing our way through life hoping we're making the best decisions we can moment to moment. Nobody knows shit. I will say that as far as conspiracies are concerned, if the rich getting rich and the ways they keep the poor destitute throughout generations is one of the biggest reasons the everyday man stays unable to make any progress against this constantly expanding disparity between the haves and have nots. THIS IS ONE OF THE BIG ONES. If we can find a way to change this we all would have a much better chance at finding out the truth on all the other things they keep us in the dark about. 


    That being said….More hollow Earth!! Hahahah


    Peace, Brother. 


    (Excuse any typos…i posted this blitzed at 630 AM. 

  5. Buzzkill….I’m only 45mins into this and I’m not entertained, which is what I’m paying for here, entertainment.  Wake up this morning all excited for a new higherside chats!  
    It’s a couple of horse diplomas telling us to watch more news?  Really, I stopped watching that propaganda on TV years ago.  Listening to these two horse diplomas tell me what poor white Americans think about black people is insulting.  This is just more fodder for the psyop.  

    When you pay to be entertained and keep having this kind of dialogue pushed down your throat, at some point you wonder when will another Tin Foil Hat Podcast come out, soon I hope🤞 

    1. Man…. just because they're academics doesn't mean that what they are talking about not worthy of conversation. It is a real issue, and this podcast, for me, is about outside information, not entertainment. If you want entertainment, watch the masked singer. Damn man. Just because you don't care to listen about the plight of your brothers, doesn't mean all other THC fans don't. They weren't trying to turn us against each other, as the main stream corporate media does, they were trying to  give you a different perspective. Love man, don't hate…

    2. Same here.  I look forward to this podcast every week.  I check every single day in the hopes of the next episode sitting there waiting for me. I always have an open mind and start listening regardless of the topic. But like you, I only made it in a little over 30 minutes before my eyes glazed over.  Ever notice how often "intellectuals" tend to disappoint as the very thing they're touted to be?

      I know it's a worthwhile topic for a lot of people, but I'd prefer it be left to schools and lecture halls.  This is not what I'm looking for here at THC and I don't think it actually serves much of purpose within the scope of our collective interests here.

      Honestly of all topics or platforms for discussion, the least interesting to me is political science and social science.  I want to know about specific conspiracies, with specific purposes, calculations and goals… people operating in the shadows to further their agenda while deceiving nearly everyone.  This is not that.

      All of these explanations as to why racism, oppression, extortion, greed, sadism and violence exist is simple and obvious.  Yet there will be different explanations for each as if they really are so different and hard to understand.  They're not.  All of these dark facets of human nature exist because generally speaking and to a large degree, people are self-serving assholes.  Of course there are decent people, but don't kid yourself, almost everyone is capable of the above and has been guilty of it at some point in time.  It is self-control that limits behavior, but limits aren't needed if the impulse doesn't exist in the first place; and we know anyway that self-control has been in deficit for a long time and especially so nowadays, thanks to social media.  Add to that the human inclination for jealousy and self-pity, and the foundation is formed for all sorts of bad intentions, behavior and self-justification for various kinds of bad deeds and treachery.

      The only reason these sciences exist is because of the other human tendency:  denial.  These sciences are necessary for those who do not think, or cannot be honest or are just flat out in denial.  If we're honest, we know all the reasons for racism and oppression.  We just don't want to face it because if it isn't happening to us or someone we care about, we feel we have enough of our own shit to worry about.  So we look the other way and shit gets bad and then we have to have "experts" (at least one of which, believes all the horseshit they've been listening to on the TV about COVID) tell us what we already know, deep down.

      Let's please stick to active and sinister conspiracies, like the one we're living through now as we have all of our freedoms and human rights stripped away right before our eyes and faster than it takes for a single professional sports season to transpire – everything this country supposedly stood for flipped upside down in the blink of an eye.  I want to know who's fucking with my life and my country and my future.  I want to know exactly how they are doing it and I want to know exactly who it is, as well as who is fighting back.  I also want to hear any ideas on how it can be stopped or what kinds of life decisions I will have to make in the future if I don't want to be tagged, injected or forced to pledge allegiance to a totalitarian government in the near future.

      I don't need to hear about random racists and the organizations (police, government, corporations, etc…) they are likely to belong to because of their exact tendencies to crave the power and authority over others that those organizations offer.

      I want to know about the people who already have power and start out conspiring in the shadows from the very beginning because they know their agenda is fucked up and wouldn't be tolerated out in the open and they need time until their plan cannot be resisted or stopped. A couple of people whispering f'd up things to each other on the job about any particular group is not that compelling or threatening to our entire way of life.  In fact it is already the status quo, and it's not the reason our lives have been fundamentally changed (probably for-theforeseeable-ever) within 5 months.  Institutional corruption doesn't move swiftly and only gains momentum when everyone looks the other way.  

      The COVID conspiracy on the other hand moves like a freight train and only relies on the complacency and passivity of frightened little people who don't think before they react and follow orders.

      I also like to hear about weird shit, magic, long-lost and newly discovered methods of healing that don't involve pharma, psychic things, astrology and so on… That's why we're here I'm pretty sure.

  6. SMDH!

    a couple of things,

    If your going to have guests like this could you possibly ask a question or two instead of letting them spew their racist lies with enthusiastic agreement?

    Why don’t you just have Louis Farrakhan or Malik Shabazz on to talk for two hours uninterrupted?

    Micheal Brown was not murdered. George Floyd was not murdered ( they haven’t had a trail yet).

    Criminals white and black give up their rights and privileges when they go to jail.Duh.

    Again much like your other guest they want there to be no consequences for black peoples criminal activity.

    Your bias is so blatant it is impossible to ignore or agree with. If you believe their OPINION is accurate, why not put to the test with a question or two?

    You do us all a disservice (especially blacks) with your unquestioning support for this perspective. If black people want equality they should start by taking responsibility for their actions.

    As you obviously are aware with your opening post here, I don’t pay to listen to this tripe. If I wanted to listen to this dialog I would tune in to BET or join the rainbow push coalition.

    Last question, 

    Do you host a show about conspiracies and fringe topics or run an anti white, black propaganda soap box?

    I’m quite sure that you and half of your guests will consider me a racist and disregard what I say. However all I am asking for is to apply some critical thinking skills and question this diatribe.

    Oh yeah, that does makes me a racist. What a sad state of affairs.


    I’m not a happy customer 




    1. How about considering the data instead of shutting down at a position you are not comfortable with. This society is against us all, but especially for black people. I am not an SJW, and just because Michael Brown and George Floyd were questionable events doesn't mean that that kind of thing happens all the time to people you never hear about. Love, not hate. Listen, don't tune out.

      1. Here's a datapoint: 9 unarmed blacks were killed by the police last year, so no, it doesn't happen all the time. Black problems are created entirely by themselves. There is no conspiracy. 

        1. I am not talking about shootings alone, but the fact that they are railroaded through the justice system and put into the prison system at a way higher rate than white people. Just a fact. That is what these folks were talking about. They are setup to fail. They really weren't even talking about the shootings for the most part. Sheesh.

  7. One of the first things I asked about once we got past introductions was about the "liberal coddling" argument. 

    I then asked to give us some details about the history of policing in America, black codes, etc. And Earl talked about racial fluidity instead.


    I can't control a person's responses, but I think it's unfair to say I didn't ask critical questions, or try to steer away from the majority of things you're frustrated with on this one. 


    I tried to push back on the media using selective cases to heighten racial tension, and tried to make the case that with over 100 million police interactions a year, 2 dozen deaths of unarmed black (or any) men, while still gross, is not at the pandemic level it's presented as. 


    So as a black man, I think you would appreciate some of this, and the attempt to highlight the slanted scales of justice, history like the Tulsa Race Massacre, etc.

  8. Ok, we understand that you believe that blacks lives matter. But sir, do you also believe that babies are cute, the sky is blue, and that bears shit in the woods!? we will need some proof please, or you will be canceled.

  9. > It’s a couple of horse diplomas telling us to watch more news?
    > Really, I stopped watching that propaganda on TV years ago.
    > […] This is just more fodder for the psyop.

    Haha, for anyone who thought Mr. Greer's thoughts on the 'rona were terrible, I think Mr. Smith set a new THC precedent in this one. I guess it's hard to avoid the subject in general, but really, do these people even know what kind of show they're on? That part had me loling at least.

    1. Received three down-votes so far for merely pointing out how Earl Smith's hilarious super duper mainstream news Coronavirus psyop parroting was much worse than Steven Greer's take, whilst saying nothing else about the content.

      Certainly this place hasn't been co-opted :rollseyes:

  10. Right on Greg 🙂 great show. Learned some shit. Thought about some other shit. Loved your questions and points. Felt like my voice was heard.

  11. Is it so hurtful for white people to hear any criticisms about themselves? Thank you Greg for not ignoring a huge problem in our country.

    From a brown skinned perspective, white privilege and brown oppression is our own personal "conspiracy" that we have been shouting about for years, and 90% of white people I hear talk about the subject act like it doesn't exist. Or we're wrong for discussing it cuz it doesn't exist in their eyes… Nuff said

    1. It’s divide and conquer. When you start attacking whole ethnic, racial, or religious groups instead of the elite few, you are taking the bait. It’s a distraction from the plutocrats who are the spiritual, if not literal, descendants of the slave owners of yore, who used slaves to suppress the labor class, similar to what many big companies are doing today with their sweatshops while pretending to be for equality.

      Notice that normal white people are being discriminated against with so-called affirmative-action, while the elites still have their alumni preference. This isn’t about justice, it’s about the plutocrats pulling up the ladder and making the rest of us fight over the scraps.

  12. Hey Greg,

    Thanks for the interview. You said something along the lines of "there has been racism in this country as long as there have been whites and blacks" (towards the end, so you know I was listening), but I wonder how true that is. I seem to recall reading in the People's History of the United States of America by Howard Zinn that when blacks were first introduced to labor in the fields that there was no racism between them and the white workers because they saw their situation as essentially equal. Perhaps racism was introduced later? Anyway, I'm not sure how reliable that thread is, but perhaps it's worth looking into.

    And just ignore those naysayers. I could feel you directing the interview in the direction that ties in with earlier themes from THC episodes, such as food deserts and drug experiments on minorities. Your back catalogue is really turning into an impressive anthology.

    Here's to a weirder 2020!

  13. Excellent show, Greg. Ignore the fascist haters.

    From working in the criminal courts, I live this shit every single day. What people call the “criminal justice system” is basically a racist meat grinder that turns poor black and brown bodies into HUGE profits for various corporations and investors in the form of private prisons and prison slave labor. It is a barbaric travesty. The stats speak for themselves. 

  14. So disappointed to see another show on racial politics. I tried to listen to the show with Angela Davis but after 40 minutes of drivel and ridiculous examples I had to stop listening. I have to admit I didn’t even try to listen to this show. I didn’t become a plus member to here what’s on CNN every day.  

    1. I tried to explain that there are two mainly because I really just wanted to do one, but today's guests got back to my request several weeks later after I'd already moved on, buuut I also thought the first one didn't go as deep as I wanted, so I tried again. I would push back on the things *I* brought up to ask them about relate at all to things you see on CNN. 

  15. I come here to learn about things I didn’t know, get deprogrammed from the main stream and maybe find some answers to many of life’s mysteries. I am disappointed in members that leave bitter comments. Not only for this show but for past shows as well. I haven’t always “agreed” with every guest and all comments from Greg. So what? I have gained much knowledge and maybe even some personal growth from this very unique podcast.

     If you disagree with a guest and what is said by the host why can’t you just say “I disagree”. Maybe leave a constructive comment if you’re so passionate about your opinion. Please try to remember that people evolve mentality at different rates. As for entertainment, I think that is the purpose of Netflix.




    1. Most people just want Greg to be their version of Fox News with constant validation of their views and opinions, any deviation from what they think this show should be is very upsetting to them. Despite the many freethinkers here that can handle a show or two out of the norm there are many dumb dumbs here that just want to hear the same hits played over and over again. Hopefully Greg can see through the narrow minded haters and stay on his course.

  16. These two are socialist activists. They are proponents for the very welfare state that keeps people of poverty down. In one moment they rail against stereotypes and then they talk about the very behavior that leads to them.  Their website has all kinds of photos supporting Black Lives Matter. I for one have had enough of all of this social activism. Please move onto the very kind of off-topic subjects that no one else is talking about that made you what you are as a Podcaster.  

  17. I think this topic, if covered before BLM would not have rubbed so many people the wrong way. I do understand why it is so divisive in today’s climate. While I don’t think it’s really arguable that black/brown people have the scales tipped in their disfavor, we are all living under the oppression of the 1% who could not care less about any of us. I’m sure it just sucks to have something extra (aka skin color) that they can use as another excuse to fill their privatized prisons. 

  18. Never skipped a THC in 8 years but, coming back from the beautiful forest of northern Michigan (No lies in nature) I don't see any reason to jump into this one. All good, I'm sure Greg is genuinely awesome in this episode. I did however feel the impact, lack of culture and hopelessness driving through Detroit. 

  19. Good chat, pleasantly surprised. Hattery made it a class thing more than race and then it got really good. The bit about Virginia Correctional Enterprise inc., Oh man, that’s a whole show right there by itself.  So if I understood correctly, VCE pays a guy .33/hr to manufacture a cubicle, whom my tax dollars are paying $80/day to keep incarcerated, then VCE sells it to our other governmental departments at full value?????say what….

  20. I am a retired chemist and have spent a couple of hours a day studying the “statistics” (their anomalies) as well as the details of the supposed molecular biology of this scamdemic.  At 25 minutes in when Earl Smith made his comments about COVID-1984, I hit the stop button and and pulled up the next download I wanted to hear – Spiro Skouras.  I figured that someone that ignorant of the overall agenda of our overlords really has little to teach me.  Guess that ain’t very WOKE.

    1. Better not let your white privilege kids run a racist lemonade stand or some poor oppressed adult black males might steal their “profits” at gunpoint because you know, reparations or some crap 

  21. “… But we also can be confident that if Sessoms were white and Hinnant had been black, this would have been front-page news, and on all the networks, even without evidence that it was a racially-motivated attack. Angry white man kills black child who trespassed on his lawn serves the narrative the media prefers.”

  22. RICHARD THIEME YOUR F**KING MOVE! please more alt topics esoteric, hollow earth, ancient science,ancient civilizations, planetary topics new discoveries. Hidden history, I could go on….

  23. I probably won't listen to this episode



                $L∆©K P®€v∆L$


  24. I heard a great comment by one of them along the lines of “what keeps poor people poor vs what keeps black people poor” but IMO that wasn’t really fleshed out much.

    BTW – where are you Greg – feeling a little abandoned…. 🙁 

  25. I believe in freedom so you are free to do as you please on your channel.

    However, I have no need for quacks from quackedemia land.  It is free on the internet in spades, no need to pay for it!

    In that it is disapointing to find it here.

  26. Pure bullshit. Blacks are heavily policed because they commit massive, disproportionate amounts of crime. That is the very well documented reality of the situation. There is no such thing as systemic racism, the US adores blacks and their lack of achievement is entirely due to genetic cognitive differences. It's the same reason they are in the same or worse situation in entirely black countries with no whites around to oppress them. It's the same reason Jews are far more successful than whites.

  27. Dude I grew up white as fuk next door to the hood, and I can say first hand the system is set up no doubt. They’ve got beds to fill and most minorities are easy targets. With the war on drugs, I mean people, it’s an easy set up mostly for extortion but surely for pleasure and power. But the real problem is most black americans continuously support and listen to a bunch of white people who continue to lie to them, hence the democratic ticket. Black people MUST fix the problem internally. Remember who they are and realize spirituality again. Criminals are taking over the world right at this moment, I suggest sticking to health and survival strategies, I mean I love the weird stuff, but time is ticking and the new world order is only around the corner!!! No matter what, I’m going to listen and support my main dude, the carolwood;) he’s a bad mf’er!!! love you bro, no homo;) keep preaching the gospel!!! Hallelujah 

  28. I never really believed in White fragility until I read this comment section..  I quit this podcast around minute 31 but to complain about having paid for it after having enjoyed so many shows would be childish AND unfair to Greg.  If you hate these guests so much then take a moment to learn about your enemy; instead some of you gave the kind of temper tantrum that would get you beat in public. Boo Hoo you didn't get your monies worth from a luxury purchase that nobody forced you into, I'll Venmo your ungrateful and probably unemployed ass if you're that worried about having paid for this.

    Ps Greg can we get someone on to cover Anderson Cooper and his Vanderbilt mother?  Sorry if it's been done!

    1. The last 40 minutes were actually pretty good, a lot of common ground and good points brought up by Greg, I was glad I listened to this fully. Took two sessions but yeah the comments and the amount of dislikes on some pretty neutral comments is really crazy. 

  29. I bailed on this fiasco in short time. If I wanted more bullshit race-guilting identity politics I'd turn on the damn TV. 

      We get exposed to this kind of divisive rhetoric 24/7 in the real world and it is ultimately the tool of the elites who are using it to foment unrest with the ultimate goal of breaking up the country and finally bringing down the US, the last country standing in the way of their Marxist – Totalitarian utopia. 

    To see this kind of low-IQ claptrap here is NOT what I expect from THC Plus. 

    1. Exactly. Todays "anti-racism" is performing the same function for the elites that the old timey kind of racism did when it actually existed, to keep the working classes fighting amongst themselves. 

    2. Would suggest the last hour, feel like it cuts to core and common ground last 45 minutes especially, was worth the time. Dunno anything about the guests really or their whole stance but gets more relatable to common Higherside Chat themes and general conspiracy related

  30. Hi, Just wanted to publicly thank Greg, even if he doesn't read this. I'm new to the communities that look at the content that THC covers, and have been surprised in other venues where I've seen major resistance to accepting that racism exists in our country, or even worldwide. I don't quite get it, because I think it's all related.

Leave a Reply