Show Notes


Join The Higherside Chats podcast as host Greg Carlwood talks West Point paranormal and star myths with returning guest, David Mathisen.

When we examine the small sliver of the human story we call “recorded history”‘ and squint to make out what little we can past that, it is impossible to deny that cultures on every continent had a serious infatuation with the stars. And despite the many unknowns- the mountain of mythological stories and mysterious structures that are built upon the patterns and movements of little flickering dots of light in the night sky, prove just how serious this ancient astrological alignment obsession was to our ancestors.
From Serpent Mound in Adam’s County, Ohio to the great Giza Plateau; from Chinese mythology to the so-called “Holy Bible”, there is nearly nothing left that doesn’t tie into this persistent preoccupation with the heavens. It’s safe to say this shouldn’t be ignored and today we are going to do all we can to wrap our heads around the reasons for this celestial emphasis in everything.
After spending over two decades as a man of faith being taught by his religious authorities to take the Bible as the isolated and literal truth of the ancient world, David Mathisen has come to discover the deep star based symbolism contained within, and the Bible’s real place among a plethora of similar ancient stories and symbolic myths that had been hidden from him all those years by a system set on control rather than spiritual enlightenment. So with a vengeance and the fiery passion of a billion suns, David has quickly become one of the most profound proponents of turning back this tide with works such as “The Undying Stars: The Truth That Unites the World’s Ancient Wisdom and Conspiracy to Keep It From You”, and his 3 volume set “Star Myths of the World and How to Interpret Them”.
3:25 To get things started, they begin by discussing the evolution of David’s understanding and work since the release of his book “The Undying Stars”. In a quest to better understand the language of the Bible, and deducing his previous convictions of a literal interpretation were wrong, Mathisen’s first work laid out some of the evidence that the Bible, just like other myths of the world, is built on a foundation of celestial metaphor. David then began assembling the “holy trinity” of ancient astrological lore his books “Star Myths”, which is a comprehensive compilation aimed to help people better understand the lost knowledge of astrotheology in a thorough and systematic way.
8:20 With accounts dating back decades of a night time visitor to the lost fifties barracks of West Point, Greg asks David, a West Point graduate and teacher to elaborate on these tales of old.  With several first person account in hand, Mathisen provides detailed narratives that give credence these creepy legends of ghost encounters and spiritual entities.
22:15 Taking the talks to the stars, Greg and David segue by examining whether these ancient myths are connected to the spirit world or the entities in it, or if it is simply a celestial connection. Although some may speculate these legends were conceived as a primitive form of nature worship, David contends these celestial actors, or celestial metaphors are not simply pointing us to the stars, but instead they are using the stars as a gigantic training aid or visible representation of the invisible world.
34:24 After discussing possible explanations for how these myths made their way across the globe and integrated into multiple cultures throughout multiple time periods, Greg and David discuss a different angle that includes the possibility of these cultures tapping into spiritual planes with shamanism and the help of massive doses of psychedelics.
37:20 David explains why the stars in the heavenly cycle are a great tool to use and facilitate the understanding of the human experience and the realm of the afterlife. With ancient cultures using the movement of the Sun as a metaphor in multiple facets, we begin to have deeper understanding into their shamanic interpretation of the material and spiritual realms. With shamans following a celestial framework on the journey to enlightenment, and ascension to higher planes, encounters with beings associated to constellations along the path, were not uncommon.
48:55 From the Dogone Tribe of Africa to Native Americans, remnants of these lost cultures and their understanding of the universe have managed to survive the imperialism of the Holy Roman Empire and weather the storm of active campaigns to eliminate them. Luckily, with the technology of today’s communication and travel we are able to rediscover what was lost and replenish our pool of collective knowledge. This conspiracy goes deeper after considering the claims of historical timelines being altered in many cultures throughout history. To substantiate the idea that many cultures were targeted for suppression and elimination, David provides several examples from the Hermetic traditions to the banning of texts such as the agnostic Nag Hammadi Text by literalist Christians of the 3rd century.
55:22 They discuss what David refers to as shallow astrotheology, or deceptive astrotheology where constellations appear to have been altered to look less like the figures they are supposed to portray. Author of the beloved children series “Curious George”, H.A. Rey also published a book titled “The Stars: A New Way to See Them” as a guide and to help outline the constellations according the the ancient systems.
1:07:38 Looking back at the system oppression of this ancient spiritual and esoteric knowledge, it seems more evident than ever that this is key to the elite’s control. After demonizing it for centuries, diluting it’s cultural influence and shifting the populous view to materialist science while outlawing drug use, it’s easy to accept why spiritual knowledge poses such a threat. Preaching adventurism and individuality, as well as the search for the greater sense and purpose of self all being the epitome of the antithesis of ideas needed for a foundation when constructing obedient, listless societies.
1:13:55 Greg and David revisit their discussion of Homer’s epics The Odyssey and The Iliad and how they relate to the orbit of the constellations, the higher self and knowing thyself.
1:24:10 David breaks down how the ancient Greek myth of the twins of Gemini, Castor and Pollux can be used as an analogy for knowing your higher self. Being the sons of Zeus, and one being divine, the other mortal, this story serves as a metaphor for the duality of self, the spiritual and material realms.
1:33:28 Greg and David dive into Eastern cultures and the similarities in the myths despite the disconnect of general worldviews. With several demonstrable connections including one Chinese myth surrounding how we got the Tao Te Ching.
1:42:39 As early as the late 1700s early 1800s Robert Taylor asserted the Bible was was based the movement of constellations. Greg and David discuss the impact of his influential works such as “The Devil’s Pulpit.”
1:48:56 After having looked at hundreds of myths and legends from around the world, Greg asks David to choose a favorite child from among his wealth of knowledge and divulge a more obscure myth fitting for a THC audience.
2:01:02 To put a finer point on all the details they have covered thus far, Greg and David speculate whether a return to widespread adoption to there proper contexts is possible or if these mythologies and divine truths been so distorted and marginalized that a mainstream comeback is unlikely.
2:16:07 Greg and David discuss the negative implications that come as a result of indoctrinating the developing minds of young children into a false paradigm of religious authority as well as the emerging educational approach of Montessori method.
Want more David Mathisen? Check out his website Star Myth World and his blog as well as the helpful star myth index, and myths he’s researched. You can also check out this video about a few celestial foundations to Bible stories, this video about the mechanics of precession this video about “Evidence in the World’s Myths for a Lost Ancient Civilization” or this video “Star Myths and the Red Sea Crossing”.  Also be sure to find David on Facebook.
Want to hear more THC? Become a plus member and gain access to the additional hour as well as the THC forums! If you want to stay connected to The Higherside Chats, like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter, check out our YouTube channel, find us on Reddit, or review us on iTunes. Thanks for the support, and until next time.

PLUS Content

70 Responses

  1. Children are usually happy with a simple answer to a simple question, like “why don’t we go to church? My answer was, “because I Love You too much”… That was the answer she gave to her friends when they asked her why she didn’t go to church…. I’ve done my part. 🙂
    Awesome topic and questions Greg,… David, Awesome interview and life’s work….

  2. Wowie zowie! Great show, Greg and David!

    My first bitch is this: with close to three hours, and feeling a drive to write an extended commentary, I see I will have to listen again, maybe more than that, take notes, burn some brain, grunt, and spit. Not to mention, wax on, wax off.

    David, praise be unto your spirit and its worldly expression. You can have such extended collected knowledge and remain humble enough to tell us that you don’t know. Namasté, good sir. All that knowledge is not wasted on you… not inverted, as you might put it. Taking it from Delphi, Socrates, and their forebears, with infinite myths and stories there to show us how little we know, the main point will remain, know thyself. All the possible tellings of the Tao might just be to show us what is not. But, tell me anyway. I want to hear another slant just the same. It all helps round it out. The more rounded out knowledge becomes, the harder it gets to get any solid hold on it. That puts us in our proper place, eh?

    The one thing that kept coming to mind, my being somewhat of a Velikovskian, is this: sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and any literally correct renditions, even in terms of mythical characters, should always be entertained as the actual possibility. This, especially when catastrophic doin’s are coming down on the heads of the players upon the pertinent age’s stage. While they had nothing in their bags of tricks with which to tell us a story that had no experiential frame of reference, except maybe as some mythically and anthropomorphically sketched beings, they still had to tell their progeny something, as it was without a doubt, their fuckin’ move.

    So, maybe, if we want to play fair, there could be the occasional door left ajar for just the teensiest bit of literalism to slip through, lest that half of the baby be tossed away with its bathwater.

    So here again with this podcast, it just seems like I become more and more a part of the Higherside choir, loving the preaching, our preacher, and so many of these guest preachers, out riding their circuit.



  3. Wonderful podcast. Thank you. You just amaze me how you get better and better at this. You were born to this my young friend. Im so proud to be associated with you. I fucking ADORE you and your shows. Im so proud of you!!!

  4. Hello again.

    At 1:09:46, the physics teacher is going to tell us that it is impossible for the Red Sea to be parted. Would that be settled by the period on the end of that sentence? That physics teacher is not going to tell you that at that time, a huge celestial sphere, the head of a super comet/protoplanet was just a few thousand miles above. He’s going to have no concept that a plasma stream and electric currents would be dancing across the landscape before the host of Israel (while Pharaoh’s armies are nipping at their heels). This plasma stream/electric discharge, is appearing for all the world as a column of “cloud by day and fire by night,” and will at the time, be seen as a writhing, fire breathing, dragon by the people of China and Siberia. As the dragon continues along its path, flipping terrestrial poles, creating unprecedented winds, volcanism, and seismicity, it will soon loom above the Americas as a feathered serpent. What a treasure trove of imagery to make something symbolic and metaphorical out of! The worry becomes not that we take it literally, but that we actually might not.

    Forget seeing any other planets or the constellations while this kind of shit’s coming down, eh? The sky is a fucking mess, the Nile and the Red Sea are shockingly red, turned to blood, one might imagine! We still call it the Red Sea, while we can see it is an amazing color of blue. WTF, eh? The really sad thing might be, give this all a few generations and few are going to believe the elders’ wild-ass stories. The kids will grow up, and in their turns, attain “wise elder” status, telling us it was only metaphorical. End of story?

    You see the possibilities here, what can be lost? Nothing has any meaning that we, ourselves, don’t give it. And then, not learning the lessons of history, who becomes condemned to repeat it? The message taken literally might _not_ be to turn it on its head. The literal message may have been the only important point. Could I be wrong with this, entertaining such a possibility? I am remembering here a “Wizard of Id” cartoon: There is a lookout standing his post. Someone in the distance yells, “Lookout!” The lookout answers, “What?” Just then a big rock flies in and smashes the lookout.

    All message is external. We, seeing these messages, literal or metaphorical, it all becomes external. We are not even our thoughts, those changeable thoughts. The true internal message is spoken in silence, though it can be experienced as a roar. All and any telling of the Tao will not be the eternal Tao. While we play this game here in meat-space, honor all the aspects, while exalting none.

    It’s okay though. It’s all just story, and a story is _not_ who and what we are. We are that which perceives it all, seeing what is story, but that, only once we know ourselves to be prior to any story. Just knowing ourselves.

    We each, as these temporary expressions of _that which is_, will go along, playing our parts, and in that, remain what we are all along, the oneness of all things, no separation. This is the Self the Oracle urges us to know. Facts or metaphors not needed.

    1. Thanks — These are thoughtful points. I myself am working to show the esoteric and celestial aspects of the myths and ancient scriptures, but you are correct that there are “literal” aspects as well. I believe when scriptures or myths say “love one another” we might want to take them literally, or when they say “you might consider fasting once in a while” etc. There is clearly a balance to be found between literal and esoteric — but I would argue that the danger of taking them “too esoterically” is lower (at least at this point in history) than the danger of taking them “too literally.” Ultimately, I am trying to show the existence of the celestial metaphor and how it functions, so that we can each go to the myths and learn from <> what they are trying to tell us. People shouldn’t really care what I myself (David Mathisen) think they mean — I always say “don’t ask ME what they mean — go ask the myths themselves! They will tell you.” I am describing the language that I think they are speaking (in their stories and myths) and then I am telling you what I am hearing them say, but other people might disagree with me and hear them saying something else. If someone hears them saying something like “Because Eve took the fruit first, that means that women are the source of evil” then I would say “I think you are not listening to them in the language that they are speaking” (that’s what I mean by inverting the message). Or if you say “Because Ham did this but Shem and Japheth did this, then racism is OK” then I would say again that person is not listening to them in the language that they are speaking and is thus inverting their message, because Shem Ham and Japeth (and Adam and Eve as well) can all be shown to be constellations and their stories celestial metaphor. I show a little about my interpretation of the Red Sea crossing here (and discuss it at more length in my books): Some people might look at the Red Sea crossing accounts and say “I hear this saying that Venus passed very close to the earth and parted the sea” — that’s fine. I think it is primarily celestial metaphor, but I don’t get too worked up about it (as long as it is not being used to promote violence, racism, etc). Again, it isn’t too important what I personally think it means (it’s important to me, but not really important to you). It’s better to go to the myths themselves and talk to them! And it’s important to get in touch with your Higher Self, and the spirit world. At least that’s what I think.

      1. Thank you so much for that response, David.

        I would certainly be interested in what your take would be if you were to read Velikovsky’s “Worlds In Collision.” I don’t think it’s easy to fault the scholarship in his many books. He was a medical doctor and psychoanalyst. What he took away from so many myths and stories, from all over the planet, describing several post-flood catastrophes, is how the group mind has suppressed the trauma of such great destruction that we, as the intelligent species we are, might well destroy ourselves, as this past 70+ years of this ‘atomic age’ plays out.

        I will soon mark my 70th year, so I will have a ticket out (as this body/mind — not me) in not so long a time. I do hope those who are younger check out the Velikovskian perspective. Hopefully, that tragic book burning that his works stimulated in 1950 will finally have its ongoing and far reaching effects abate.

        Another book of V.’s that could be of interest to you is, “Oedipus and Akhnaton.” This was the work he was focused on in the ’40s when the weight of so many similar descriptions of catastrophic events started to pile up, causing him to abandon that project which then was not completed until 1960.



        1. Thank you Satya for your kind words and advice — I actually am a catastrophist: I believe the evidence for a cataclysm or cataclysms in earth’s ancient history is overwhelming and undeniable. I do think that Velikovsky was very focused upon trying to explain stories and passages from the Hebrew Scriptures as if they happened in literal earth history (I believe the sun standing still for Joshua in the battle was Velikovsky’s first focus or “mystery” that he felt he needed to solve, and that led to all the rest), and I personally find a lot of evidence that argues that these are celestial metaphor (including “sun standing still” — which happens at solstices) — but I am in agreement about clear evidence for catastrophism in earth’s past and am generally of the opinion that our conventional paradigm of ancient history is clearly wrong (deliberately wrong, most likely), and so I commend any honest attempt to offer alternative hypotheses that may better explain the evidence that we find and would not criticize anyone who I believe is honestly offering an alternative hypothesis that might fit the evidence. I’m just not so sure that using myths as supporting evidence (under the assumption that they describe literal history) is tenable, if they can be shown to be celestial metaphor. But I should really look at his original work more closely before commenting any further on it. I am spending most of my energy describing the evidence that I am finding, rather than doing a lot of analysis of Velikovsky or others describing the evidence as they see it. Thanks and I think 70 is a great halfway point! I think during the story of Noah’s vineyard the number 120 yrs is mentioned. _/\_

          1. Thank you again, David.

            I can see that I probably come across as somewhat of a zealot about this, and hope this isn’t frightening anyone off. I myself am not so caught in the Freudian fears of acting out, should we not grasp a suppressed specter of cosmic catastrophes. More what I get from Velikovsky, specifically in “Worlds In Collision,” in the retelling of these stories from all around the globe, is that in their first tellings, these were _not_ myths. My concern is more for honest attempts that were made at passing on the peoples’ histories, that these attempts not be allowed to fail, much for our present lack of imagination, if nothing else.

            So many of the minds that would be drawn to the _higher side_ are wanting answers of what has come before. The suppression of Velikovsky was a bald conspiracy in plain sight. The really sad thing was, it was less about covering up the truth than protecting academic vested interests and pure, raw, ego. Who paid the price? Mostly it was people who were seeking, and paying for, educations. The main forces of suppression in 1950 were not so much concerned, for they had judged what they hadn’t/wouldn’t read to be no threat to their versions of truth in science and history, but they stood together as the keepers of the academy. They would not have their authorities challenged.

            Since 1950, the science has so much had to move in V.’s direction on so many fronts that there does seem to be a slight buckle in the stone wall that encircles academia. The insulation of the disciplines may have lessened slightly, but the history told behind the ivy covered walls just keeps adding more coats of paint to geographically separate mural walls. Stephan J. Gould only lightened the weight of Uniformity’s pin with his, “punctuated equilibrium,” letting catastrophism barely lift one shoulder off the mat. This keeps the real moving and shaking of the past out there beyond where it might threaten the historians. As soon as history becomes seen as myth, it is no longer history. Could mythology apply something like the principle of _First, Do No Harm_ to the telling of history?

            Okay, thanks again. Maybe I am a zealot, huh?

            We do agree about the Higher Self. It, being the only Self, what happens in this dance of maya will certainly fade back into the nothingness from which it arises. We will be at peace about the whole of it when it’s seen through the oracle of heart.


            1. Thank you Satya — I don’t actually think that any two human beings on this planet agree on everything, so I don’t ever get too upset about it. I think the cataclysmic evidence is overwhelming, but that doesn’t necessarily mean Venus was the cause — although I certainly don’t rule it out categorically. I’m less enthusiastic about V’s interpretations of the myths to support his cataclysmic theories — I find evidence that explains them very well without planets leaving their present orbits whatsoever, but I am always willing to change my overarching theory if the evidence ever stacks up to the point that it looks like I need a new overarching frame. I’ve changed it before, that’s for sure!

              1. Thanks, David.

                I forgot to pick up my copy of Laird Scranton’s, “The Velikovsky Heresies” when I was in town last Monday. A flat tire put me off my game and it slipped my mind to turn by the bookstore. But, I go again tomorrow. Sadly, I am a less than accomplished reader, and it will take me some time to get through it, as it does any book. Lysdexia has been my lifelong curse.

                My concern about this book is that it will be just another synopsis as far as the source material is presented, but there is the hope it will serve as encouragement for other readers to go to the source. Don’t expect any reviews for some time. While I completed my sixth reading of “Worlds In Collision” last spring, that reading was begun around the last new year. That was fast for me.

                As an ADHD and dyslexic kid, flunking about everything in school for an inability to read above entry level, the truth is, I got a tiny crystal radio for cereal box tops which required no batteries. I would clip its alligator clip to my bed springs in the San Gabriel Valley and listen to Clear Channel AM stations from as far away as New Orleans, Chicago, and Denver, and listen to talk late night talk radio. I learned some electronics from my father (and later the navy) and mechanics, hands on, but it was the radio that was the core of my early interdisciplinary education.

                It is said that the autodidact has a fool for a teacher. But while I am without formal education, feel I have had thousands of teachers. I only know that while the experience of school made me believe I was not very bright during my early life, there are blessings to be had in missing the basic programming of the academe. It is a natural for me, finding the Higherside Chats, as the format is the medium most suited to my learning style. I am most excited to be here, splashing around in the ones and zeros.

                While it may appear here that I am a One Note Johnny, all up about Velikovsky, I’m afraid it’s much more than that, and it’s under the most basic foundations of physics, cosmology, and cosmogony, where I want to set fulcrums and place levers.

                So, I sure would like to see more action in the forums, fellow Highersiders.

                Namasté, David, Greg, all you Plus’ers. Let’s rock!

  5. The gnosis of The Office: Michael Scott is our lower self. Then who symbolizes the higher self? Dwight Shrute. Obviously. ?

    This episode was massive. Too many profound points to mention, and I’m still trying to process it all anyway. Thank you David and Greg for all you do!

      1. I was going to make a beets comment myself — like, “of course he must be the higher self — have you ever seen how many layers there are inside a beet?” But then again, maybe Jim is the higher self, once he accomplishes the alchemical marriage. Which would then make Pam the true Higher Self in that show.

  6. Great show. As a Naval Officer I had to learn and use a lot of those constellations. They always seemed intuitively off. Just glancing at the ones Dave mentions makes me mad at all the hard memorization and chart checking. And by the way, his is a great link to send flat earth curious to be disabused of that notion. Bless him for taking the time to make some key, easy to understand, arguments. He is too kind to ardent proponents. They are gaslighting truth seekers, whose worldviews, recently rocked by awakening, are susceptible to this crap. As ever, use your own discernment.

    1. Thanks blackshoe10! My army intelligence notes that you used a UK url on your link! You Navy officers do get around. Appreciate the comments — keep an eye out for those kraken and don’t sail off the edge of the map! BEAT NAVY

  7. David Mathisen was like the right cross to Austin Coppock’s left jab. Listened to both interviews over two days and was really impressed by both. Will definitely be checking out their books and other materials. Thanks to THC, DWM and AC.

  8. Brilliant show to end a great run of excellent shows this last month. Spiritually uplifting episode too. I’m now reminded to watch karate kid again with my 8 year old 🙂
    Thanks Greg and David.

  9. Thanks for the great show David and Greg!
    I found out this interesting parallel when listening to the show:

    Wikipedia: Uranus’s genitals were thrown in the sea by Cronus (Saturn) from which Aphrodite (Venus) came about.
    Now, considering Uranus’s orbit axis is perpendicular to all the other planets in the solar system, and Venus being a relatively new planet (drawn from its young surface, relatively void of craters by space stuff, and that it was sometimes referred to as a comet in older texts), it is not far fetch to think somehow Saturn cause a piece of Uranus to fly off to become Venus, while leaving Uranus with a tilted axis (flat, or dead, relative to other ‘heavenly bodies’).
    Sorry for rambling.

    1. If you look at the constellation Orion, you may be able to discern the sickle which Kronos used to do that notorious deed to Ouranos. This important topic is discussed in Star Myths of the World, Volume Two (all about the myths of ancient Greece). From this legend, I am told, the stigma against left-handedness arose (this may well be based on the constellation Orion, as related to this particular story). The literal planetary interpretation of the story is of course a possible explanation (see Velikovsky discussion above). I’m primarily focused on the evidence that these myths are based on the constellations that we can still see to this day, but as I’ve said before I think all honestly-offered hypotheses which can explain the evidence we see should be considered!

      1. I don’t see why both interpretations can’t be valid. We already know written records tend to be corrupted or misinterpreted, so why wouldn’t wise ancestors use the stars as mnemonics to aid with an oral history? We are conditioned to believe historical documents and now movies as true representations of fact, but all we really know is they were made, not that they were true. What always bugged me was the level of detail of ancient, or even recent battles. I have a hard time believing anyone had the time to record it in the middle of the shit. Hell, I’ve been on exercises where everyone gets together after the fact and decides what they are going to report…

  10. I enjoyed the first part about the entities and west point stories. Before I woke up and left the army 2.5 years ago I was stationed in Germany at conn barracks in schweibfurt. The post was a ww2 era military base housing panzers and the nazi aviators. Our barracks were an old German hospital and most all of the swastikas have been removed. Some have said it was a mental hospital but I’m not sure on that. But we know it was a medical facility. There’s many people I know whom have seen things there. They shut the post down in 2014 but I left there in 2013. In college in 2010 while attending a private college called bacone, I have seen several things I can’t explain. It was an old rockefeller institution where they taught Indian children around the turn of the century. So I’m sure some heinous fucked up shit happened there. Several of my team mates in the football dorms have seen something like a black cat run across the floor and disappear into a wall locker or simply out of the wall. At night you could sometimes hear what sounded like horses galloping. on about 5 occasions while drinking beer near the woods on the back side of the campus myself along with 3 others have seen luminous orbs floating and flying around me, within arms reach. I don’t know what they were but I know for 100% that what I seen I cannot explain with conventional answers. Just my two cents

    1. thanks for this important info — I think there is a book (or several books) in there somewhere —

      I just returned from a weekend at West Point (25th reunion — we graduated in 1991)

      and I encountered several additional classmates who had experienced things in the old Divisions (specifically the 47th Division, most commonly)

      1. Yeah man, I’m not sure how or why, or all the reasoning involved, but the only 2 times that I’m 100% convinced something unexplainable happened to me in my life, once was at a 100 year old native american school and the other was at a nazi hospital. Why haven’t I seen these things at the mall or leaving a McDonald’s parking lot at night. It’s just strange is all, but I can’t be a skeptic on this anymore. It’s one of those I really don’t know, but something.

  11. Yeah, Greg and David, this was a rejuvenating listen. I’ve followed you David since you were first on Red Ice and have been very inspired, and Greg, I’ve been a plus member for a few years. Been away for a few months, being ‘rescued’ from a job in hell (hopelessness) to a more laid-back and enjoyable one with much better pay and nicer folks. This was a GREAT episode to return to. Funny, I happened to pick up the book, ‘Life of Pi’ the other day (great movie) and it so far is explaining Pi’s embracing of the different religions – Hindu, Christianity, and Muslim – it gets the brain juice flowing. David, your expoundings are really helping renew my spiritual understandings. Over the last years I’ve acquired a dim view of all religion, mired in a quandary, fed up with it all. I have all my life loved the stars, astrology, etc., all the myths, and you help me organize my views. Thanks to you and also to you, Greg, for all that you do. I’m feeling so much better now. Gotta listen to this another coupla times.

  12. This was the best episode yet. I just want to say something in order to
    remember remember
    to say more sooner or later.

    Hey, this was the best.

    DWM congrats, you’re a wealth of knowledge and are doing a service for our human family.
    Thank you both kindly.

  13. Loving – very helpful! I’ve been searching for mythological info on the Pleiades for over a year. It’s always good to hear from someone who loves what they do and that shines like a star out of this conversation.

    Yeah, the spirit world is all around us, we swim in that sea.

    1. awesome — very glad to hear that — and that’s a great way of putting it

      the blog is searchable, as you’ve probably already figured out — and the star myth world website is also searchable.

      if you haven’t found it already, my extended discussion of the story of Balaam from the OT contains references to the Pleiades

      Also, the Upton Chamber in Massachusetts, which I have visited twice and discussed on the blog, has alignments to the Pleiades according to the authors of the book Manitou (I have not personally confirmed those alignments, because they take place on specific days of the year when the Pleiades are setting, and also because there are now many large trees growing around the Upton Chamber site which would tend to block the view of the stars from the chamber itself).

  14. In everything I’ve read and heard about about the elite, the basis for their belief in their high status is all about the heredity, genetics, the bloodlines, i.e. the body, not the soul or spirit which belongs to the stars. I think this is one obvious aspect of the inversion that David is talking about. I’m stating the blindingly obvious I guess… oh well.

    1. This is an excellent observation — you have articulated it well here.

      May seem to be “blindingly obvious,” but it is also pretty obvious that in this incarnate life, we are very prone to “defaulting” to material / physical / external / bodily ways of looking at things — and that getting us to revert to that mode is one very common tactic of anyone who wants to manipulate others, whether it is for something as simple as “winning an argument,” or for manipulation on a much bigger scale.

  15. Man i just was on Davids website and theres some heavy reading in his sources, hats off to him 🙂
    Having the links at the end of the podcast summary really is the icing on the cake, so much to learn and soooo little time.

  16. DWM I’m wondering how a third solve strikes you, re: to no real NASA no non-cgi space pics, a non flat earth non round (PEAR!?) shape earth, but rather a electric ether consciousness torroidal model… Thought, impression, synchronicities?

    This jives with no moon landing ie wag the moondoggie and with animism and from what I can tell your work as well.

    1. plasma and electricity very important — obviously, I have a different approach to the myths however — to say that we cannot understand the myths by looking at the heavens as they are now is, in my analysis, not supported by the evidence.

      I am convinced that we are living on a sphere, not a flat earth (I’ve written some of my reasons for this on my blog — giving evidence that anyone can see for themselves, without going up into orbit, and evidence that I myself have seen, when traveling pretty far south in the southern hemisphere).

      I don’t actually understand what a “third solve” means.

      For all questions regarding NASA, I would point you to the outstanding work of Dr. Farrell. And yes, I do believe these topics are all related, because you are probably dealing with the same group or groups.

      Advanced technology was obviously present in the civilization(s) responsible for some of the stone monuments still found on the planet to this day — and located at significant nodes. I am generally in agreement with some of the analysis of John Michell that suggests the ancients may have known how to levitate large stones and even possibly travel along energy lines in an “anti-gravity” type manner. If they could do it then, I would argue that it can still probably be done.

      As I understand the concept of animism, it is another way of describing the worldview which I believe ALL the ancient myths to be teaching. See for instance my conclusion to Star Myths Volume Two, describing the worldview of the mythology of ancient Greece (see also this blog post on that subject: ). I use the term “shamanic worldview” as a shorthand way of describing that same worldview which I believe could generally be termed “animistic” as well, although some may point out some fine distinctions — but speaking generally, I think shamanic and animistic would probably overlap more than they would disagree. Hope that answers your question.

      1. We seem to be in mostly full agreement across the board, from interpretation of stars (their real HA readings). I am a member of GDS a la Dr F.

        This is actually quite an advanced claim, yet not if you accept Rupert Sheldrake or the concept of the morphogenic field. I am, vis a vis Sevan Bomar making the utter aassertion space travel does not via rockets exist, the rockets are like Kermit the frog… They exist physically but only exist for show and are not really a functional space faring object. Good enough metaphor.

        So my question to be more clear is what do make of a non round non flat but third way, ie consciousness physics , if you will. Via morphogenic / torroidal manifestation. What do you make of that? Kinda fitting to ask on a day where most everyone here is cramming themselves in to one of two ‘choices’.

        As a CAF, Dr F, Dark Journalist sync minded person…. TRUMP FR President 2016!

  17. Fuck, my skin started crawling when David described the entities in the barricks as having hollow yellow eyes. I recently had a paranormal experience on a subway train that ended with me in the ER.

    I passed out on a subway after feeling a presence come onto me and long story short, had a brief conversation with a creature with glowing yellowy eyes.

    The doctors checked me out and did a full medical check on me. I thought I had a seizure but I guess you release a certain chemical in your body that doctors can measure and I had no sign of any trauma or seizures in my body, and after scheduling follow-up tests and meeting with several specialists, they still have no clue what happened to me.

    I had no idea other people would notice something like that with the eyes, makes me feel less crazy.

  18. Greg I had the exact same experience as you with my seat belt. 15 years old and before seat belt laws I was a passenger in the front seat and a voice inside my head clearly told me to put my seat belt on right now. I did. A minute or two later we were in a collision and spun. Safe because of seat belt. Lots of other examples in my life. Must never ignore those voices.

  19. A great episode and a great guest. The Achilles/Patroclus dualism analysis sent a shiver down my spine, very interesting. The next podcast I listened to was this: .It had some great synchronicities with this episode, specifically about be told/taught the Buddhist 8 fold path and then practicing it and realizing intuitively the truth that the path reveals (nice parallel to the Painting the fence/Karate analogy).

    1. thanks for that comment — yes, I believe that these myths are conveying the very same knowledge that is also the goal of that 8-fold path, as well as the Yoga path (Ashtanga Yoga, for instance, means “eight limbs”) and also many of the esoteric Daoist (or Taoist) paths — one of which is called Bagua (or “eight divinations / eight trigrams” — sometimes called the “eight hexagrams”). I believe that the Iliad is teaching the very same lesson, using Achilles and Patroclus etc! Thanks for making those connections and for the link to the BSWA podcast.

  20. Hey Highersiders!
    I wish I could ask David about this one. I ran across this bible passage: Job 26:11-13:

    “11 The pillars of the heavens quake,
    aghast at his rebuke.
    12 By his power he churned up the sea;
    by his wisdom he cut Rahab to pieces.
    13 By his breath the skies became fair;
    his hand pierced the gliding serpent.”

    The passage seems similar to the Hindu myth of the creation of Rahu and Ketu and the churning of the oceans. Short synopsis here:

    It all seems like astro-events to me.

    1. well spotted! very nice connection.
      Graham Hancock has done some nice analysis on the Churning of the Ocean of Milk, connecting it to the ages-long action of precession.
      I would add that this story also has direct connections to the constellations in the vicinity of Hercules and Ophiucus, extremely important constellations (and located alongside the brightest and thickest part of the great ring of the Milky Way).
      The mountain which forms the pivot, and the great serpent which the two sides pull during the Churning, most likely correspond to the constellation Ophiucus. I have argued previously (for instance here: ) that Shiva corresponds to the constellation Hercules. You can see the correspondence in the Nataraja form of Shiva if you are familiar with the outline of the constellation Hercules (be sure to use the H. A. Rey version!), for instance here:

      In that story, Shiva drinks poison from the serpent — this can be seen in the relative positions of Hercules and Ophiucus in the sky (and specifically, the head of the serpent of Ophiucus). Also, during that Churning, one of the items which is produced is a moon-shaped crown for Shiva (this crown is known as Chandra), and this probably corresponds to the Northern Crown or Corona Borealis, which is situated near the constellation Hercules and above the serpent head of Ophiucus.

      In the Biblical passage you have cited, the one who is the subject of those verses (the one that the verses are describing) is the LORD. If you read Star Myths of the Bible (which is Volume Three of the Star Myths series) you will see abundant evidence of correspondence to the constellation Hercules there as well.

      It is a very good observation on your part that this passage connects to the Churning of the Ocean of Milk described in the ancient Puranas and Sanskrit epics.

      The pillars that tremble may be the two halves of the serpent born by Ophiucus again (in Star Myths Volume Three, I present evidence that this constellation probably features at the end of the Samson series of episodes, in which he brings down the two pillars). The hand piercing the serpent can be seen in the relative positions of Hercules and Ophiucus again (specifically, Hercules in the sky reaches his lower hand towards the head of the serpent held by Ophiucus).

      Note that you are quoting the NIV translation above — not my favorite translation. It may be more “readable” than the King James or the Geneva Versions from previous centuries, but the translators deliberately “modernize” certain passages in ways that remove celestial clues.

      Thanks for this observation — very insightful.

  21. Great show, Greg. One of my favorites. I really would want to ask David if any of these ancient myths talk about the crossover of energy from the unseen realm to the lower realm for our use? For example, how does the flow of reiki energy switch on and off and come into our realm? How does it work when a person has one foot on each side and can maybe harness some of the unseen stuff and bring it into this realm? I would love to know more about what the myths have to say about magic/energy, and its use and practitioners.

    1. Thanks for the positive feedback —
      I would first reply that you shouldn’t want to ask me: ask the myths themselves and your Higher Self — I think they will answer!
      I would say that the ancient Star Myths given to humanity definitely talk about those subjects. The Mahabharata would be a good place to look for sure. You can find the complete Ganguli translation online here:
      You might also enjoy the modern Krishna Dharma version:
      In that ancient Sanskrit epic there are many examples of going to the celestial realm to bring back energy or weapons that can only be obtained in the divine realm. You can also find similar examples in the Iliad and the Odyssey (Achilles is given new armor after the death of Patroclus, for example, from the gods themselves).
      Also, in the Old Testament Scriptures, Solomon is visited in a dream and given a wise and understanding heart — and he could have asked for anything, but the text makes clear that he asked for gifts to HELP his people, and that God was pleased that he did not ask for wealth or for power over the lives of his enemies (see I Kings chapter 3).
      So, the answers are there for us in the ancient wisdom itself. I believe if we go to them, we will find better answers than anything that I could tell you!

  22. This is my kind of guest. I had Mr Mathisen’s book – The Undying Stars – on my booklist for way too long so I bought it immediately after concluding this interview and I am enthralled.
    The Greek myths in particular seem extraordinarily important to the British elite. Varying British novelists usually out of Oxford or Cambridge throughout the previous century integrated mythologies into their work as a covert way of passing messages between one another and over the heads of the ignorant masses. It is the sort of vulgarity and hubris I have been brought up with where highly educated men, from certain backgrounds using received pronunciation were/are `the media’ and their modis operandi is to control the narrative through popular culture and turn everything including war into one of their disgusting little in-house jokes.
    I am under educated like so many of my peers and it really does seem to have been a conspiracy of government schooling in this country to compress imagination and critical thinking. However, my time has come and I although I am well versed in loads of different areas, Mr Mathisen is now educating me further.
    A really good interview where the guest opened up portals within me to bring together my own knowledge and experience. The host is exceptional at allowing guests to follow their own process and so to the listener.

  23. Had to come back and listen to this again! What a great show. Also going to West Point doesn’t seem like much fun as college should be. I trained some Cadets there on shooting mortars one summer and it didn’t seem the plebs were enjoying themselves too much. Beautiful place though. I give the man lots of credit for making it through.

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