Angela J Davis Interview on Policing the black man on The Higherside Chats Podcast

Angela J. Davis | Policing The Black Man, Arbitrary Justice, & A Broken System

Show Notes


Angela J. Davis, professor of law at AU’s Washington College of Law, is an expert in criminal law and procedure with a specific focus on prosecutorial power and racism in the criminal justice system. Davis previously served as director of the D.C. Public Defender Service, where she began as a staff attorney representing indigent juveniles and adults. She also served as executive director of the National Rainbow Coalition and is a former law clerk of the Honorable Theodore R. Newman, the former Chief Judge of the D.C. Court of Appeals.

Davis is the author of Arbitrary Justice: The Power of the American Prosecutor. She is also the editor or co-editor of Criminal LawTrial Stories, the 6th edition of Basic Criminal Procedure, as well as the main topics of the day: Policing the Black Man: Arrest, Prosecution, and Imprisonment.


PLUS Content

  • The Problem with Police Unions.
  • Public Defenders.
  • Creative solutions for restructuring criminal justice.

36 Responses

  1. Ok, for some reason, I thought you were talking to 60s Marxist radical and Black Panther, Angela Davis. 
    Still, this is a topic that deserves all the attention it can get.

    I have worked in the criminal justice system for about the last 20 years. I can tell you from first-hand experience, everything she suggests is true. What people call the criminal justice system is basically a racist meat grinder that feeds poor black and brown bodies to a for-profit, private prison industry. 
    I have no love for the fucking pigs. 

    1. …I too! Was starting to 'shake my head…in denial'..with a shocked.."Noooo000OOOHhh" rumbling up the decbels to the ]legendary level ‘infinity’! Then I saw the ‘J’;..thank gawd..a ‘J’..! Saved my sanity! Oi.! Wotcha mean.."how can I tell"..?! Haha! Sorry? Best wshes to you & yours heart

      Lurve & Peas! ;Q xxx

  2. Hello from Australia, long time listeners and plus members for awhile and absolutely no regrets in being so, as being a member of anything  these days usually means aligning with someone/thing doctrine,belief structure  or dominion. 

    Would like to take the opportunity to commend you Greg for the platform and community of open and like minded individuals where we can gather and share different view,opinions  and perspectives with very little conflict and hate. With every episode that you put out is done with consistent  love compassion and peace and for this u must be applauded. 

    My partner and I have heard you Greg tackle many difficult topics, but with this episode and considering what happening in America and the globe we could not help to think how brave you are, and we are grateful to know there is a place we can go to listen to a true truth seeker and those who willing to step up to your platform. 

    So before you get bombarded by all the na sayers and negativity that you are clearly expecting  we thought it might serve you well to receive some encouraging words and positive feedback.

    Keep up the good work, keep the good fight going thanks for all you have done and will do. Peace and Love from downunder Ben & Laura.


    1. Thanks for saying so! When you look at the YouTube comments on this one, they're scary. I think it might be my only show ever with more thumbs down than thumbs up. 

      I think we all know there are operations running in the "race space," but way too many people seem to have this idea now that racism itself is a hoax perpetuated by the left. That's insane to me. I'm not talking about Soros or BLM or ANTIFA, etc.  just plain and simple: American life has more roadblocks for dark-skinned people. I can't believe that's even in question. 

      I've always thought it was weird that "conspiracy" was mainly a conservative white man's game, bc some of the best examples we have of the Big Machine chewing people up without regard, would be dark-skinned communities. Like, could you imagine Alex Jones doing this episode? I don't watch him enough to know really, but it seems out of character for him when I think about it. 

      That said, some comments have been about how it's nice and rare to see an episode like this on a "conspiracy" show, and I'l take that. Glad the paid members are way more open to this than the YouTubers, thanks! 

  3. Interesting, initially, but I had to stop listening.

    The problem is that this is being discussed from within the paradigm of the oppressor.

    Consider this: There is no such thing as a 'black' person and there is no such thing as a 'white' person. I've checked the color charts, and I've never met anyone approaching these colors. There is also no such thing as 'race'. We are more similar than we are different. 

    'Race' has been socially engineered as a concept, and indoctrinated into children during the early socialization processes currently in operation on planet Earth. To an alien, this Earthly construct would be absurd. Just as it would be absurd to call cats difference 'races' based on the color of their fur.

    But if you wanted to divide cats, you would tell some they were black, some white, etc.

    'Black'; 'white'; 'race', these are all terms which have been engineered as an arbitrary means of dividing people. If you use the terms 'black', 'white' or 'race', you (consciously or not) conform with precisely the ideology that you seek to escape from. You participate in the fraud.

    The melanin density wars won't be solved by wrestling in the mud of the existing lexicon.

    Transcendence requires that the rusted machinery of a previous-paradigm is dismantled. Instead, this episode appeared to stoke the coal in its furnace.

    That said, thank you for provoking thought. As always: Keep going.

    1. Your idea makes perfect sense if we were creating a society from scratch, but we aren't, we have to play the cards where they lay and that means recognizing race and the injustice that has been done because of it.

  4. Your bravery and objectivity on this subject extends as far as the mob will allow and no further. You know you'll get 'cancelled' from twitter/patreon/youtube simply for having the wrong guest on discussing 'race'. If there's no space for an expansive debate, there will be no learning, no evolution of ideas and no resolution. All we have at present is different degrees of preaching to the choir, some sermons being data based, the vast majority "story" based.

    So, engaging in any way on this subject is futile at present, as this is not a moment of learning….Unless of course, you're being rather clever and simply using these diverse guests to distance yourself from the old Red Ice crowd, who are a very significant portion of your past guests and listeners. I don't think you're that cold and calculating Greg, but make no mistake, that IS how this looks to anyone with a long-term view of the conspiracy/alternate/new-age dumpster fire.

  5. Loved this … especially once she warmed up and got ranting, brilliant…. This stuff should be common knowledge. 

    It's sad that people are possessed by fake ideological division, and seem to think the whole topic belongs to one "side." The injustice system is one of the biggest tentacles of the squid on all of our face… it's a legit conspiracy topic.

  6. This is by far the most disheartening and biased interview I have ever heard. You did not ask one question or say one thing about her idiotic rambling. All you did was suck up and say yup uh-huh yup uh uh.

    She literally in the length of a 10 minute story was trying  to justify Rayshard. Evans being passed out drunk in the Wendy’s drive-through. She said they could’ve just let him go and you said uh-huh. Let me tell you from experience that is not the way it works. They do not give you a breathalyzer you fail it and they let you go.

    He clearly resisted arrest. And the rest that would’ve happened to you or me or anybody else. Those police were more than patient with him.

    I understand you’re a liberal but in the past you  at least tried to stay objective and ask obvious questions that I would have asked. Not this time.

    There was something about the schools too that was outrageous but I am not gonna listen to 2 hours of that again just to berate a point. 

    Just because we’re stoners doesn’t mean we can’t use our critical thinking skills 

    If you really believe what she’s saying is true, it should stand up to scrutiny.

    1. That's exactly the problem with these arguments, they're all based on "stories" and not data, as per the ideals of Critical Race Theory. According to that school of thought, she can absolutely tell a 10 minute story to justify some opinion she has about racism/police and it's actually truer than anything based on any empirical facts because empiricsm is a racist white academic construct blah blah etc

  7. Can we stop making this about people of color!? You know what got Martin Luther King Jr. killed? He attempted to unify poor black and poor white people against the system oppressing ALL people of a lower economic order, and THAT was going to actually cause a problem for the system of power, so they ended him. If anything, this is a problem of opportunity being horded by the wealthy, whatever their skin color, and preventing opportunity for the poor, whatever their skin color as well. Making this problem about skin color is turning us against each other, and this is not helpful, and will not produce a solution to the actual problem. Focusing on the color of peoples skin, when facing the violence of a corrupt state, is only working to the advantage of the corrupt state, and dividing us further. This is not to say there are not issues related to skin color, but I'm darn sure that making skin color the primary issue is likely to resurrect the racism of the past, rather than actually resolve any of the underlying economic issues effecting all Americans. Let's please unify and get our real enemies cornered, rather than fight among ourselves.

    1. exactly. when he was pro black, no problem. Pro humanity, now he has got to go. He also helped demonstrate the power of peaceful protest. When the authority's are using violence on these peaceful groups, it becomes very obvious who is in the right/wrong. When there is violence, looting, destruction of property… its hard to look like the good guys. 

  8. What is with this woman's insistence on suggesting 'mental health professionals' over and over again as a 'solution' to the failings of imbecilic cops? Is this some mainstream talkshow now or something? If she thinks that’s some kind of way forward, I highly doubt she has any knowledge or experience of the mental health system, to say the least.

  9. Thank you SO much for this – I finally have something I can share with the left which will help open their eyes to the deeper issues. FYI – Several years back, I volunteered my time to help sort out the child support (family) court system in Durham, NC. This is all true and I saw it firsthand. I taught the court system how to collaborate and bypass the mandate of the different factions of the court to try to destroy one another – thereby destroying the "deadbeat dads" in the process by costing them their jobs. A new Judge, Marcia Morey, was broght in to destroy all the goodness the court system had built to try to help families instead of destroy them.

    This podcast about murdered investigative journalist Gary Webb will help you understand a great deal more. It's a terrific listen. (

    God Bless all THC listeners and interviewees and of course – Greg!

  10. Taking data for 5 months (1/1/15-5/31/15). "Number of black people killed by cops" is not clear and accurate data. Long term data says cops kill 'on average' twice as many unarmed white people as black people during any given year.

    1. Right, and the populations are closer to 13% black. So it should be closer to 4 or 5 times as many white people, if all things were equal. 

  11. I have been in LE for over 30 years.  It is wrong that an officer abuses any human being.  Miss Davis mentions briefly but neglected to talk in detail about the rise in violent crime committed by armed and dangerous juveniles.  We have a relatively new emerging trend of teens brutally murdering people.  Many troubled teens come from homes with little or no positive adult supervision.  She also failed to cite specific studies to support her statements.  I am outraged by the black on black crime in our cities.  However, no one black or white seems to really care.  She did admit that she didn't think that the disparity in sentencing was intentional.  My city has more serious violent felons on ankle bracelets released to their home than any other place in the US.  These violent individuals should be locked up but instead it is a revolving door.  Follow the money.  There is no profit in a well ordered and peaceful society.  Our social and justice system is broken.  Our society is demanding police to do more with less; less training, administer narcan, deliver food to the hungry, be mental health experts, and the list goes on…  and by the way maintain order as violent crime spirals out of control.  If police are not properly trained, educated, disciplined, managed, led and properly funded to do the job they were created to do, nothing will change. 

  12. As I started listening, I thought oh no. I'm gonna have to listen to a bunch of liberal divel… See, I'm a 60 year old guy from your neck of the woods Greg. And for some reason I ended up a hard boiled conservative. A long haired pot smoking Reagen conservative. Must have been the water in El Cajon and Santee or something… Anyway, I had nothing else to listen to, so I stuck with it… And I'll be damned if Angela didn't make a lot of sense. Changed my mind on several things, and opened my creaky neurons to looking into more on her thoughts… Anyway, really enjoyed your guest. Hope she comes back soon. Good job Greg. This is a why you are the best!!! 

  13. I haven’t even listened to this yet but I’ll so glad you did it. Conspiracy theories as a profession/hobby/lifestyle are complicated and intersected as humans. I have learned and witnessed institutionalized racism. There is no conspiracy about it. It exists and the only people saying it doesn’t are white, go figure…oh and lil Wayne who is hella rich and can afford to not “see” it. I even have thoughts about some parts of the race dialogue being a conspiracy as far as the recent protests, all though I am ALL for them…but there’s no doubt that our system is systematically racist and built to be that way.  Thank you for doing a daring show for your fan base that may not all agree. It shows a lot of character that you’re willing to risk that.  Moments like these make me proud to support you by being a plus member (although I generally love your show this just makes me appreciate it that much more). 

  14. I'm disappointed and a little insulted at this episode. I come here for an alternative view on current and historical events- not for partisan propaganda. I didn't make it past her description of the Rayshard Brooks incident. If that is her interpretation of those events, then everything she says is suspect to me.

    What's next? Are we gonna have Henry Kissinger on to give us the real truth of 9/11? Or maybe John Brennan to discuss Russiagate? When did this show start parroting mainstream media talking points?

    Not a good look, Greg.

  15. @maglut yeah, that was more or less my problem with it. I'm not at all opposed to the line of inquiry, but what are a barrage of uber mainstream talking points doing on a conspiracy theory show? I come here to get away from the 'grossly intact' banality of the MSM echo chamber, not to hear more of it…

  16. I stole this from another site that I listen to regularly.


    There is a easy way to change the culture within the police force. Have the president sign a executive order stating that if an officer has an infraction against them they are immediately sent home without pay. If an office is allowed to work with an infraction that department is stripped of the ability to buy surplus military supplies and any funding to do so until that office is not on the force. 

    the second part of this is that if a office has more than one infraction within their employment valid or not that officer is put into a database. If both infractions are found to be invalid the office can come to work but his name remains in the database. 

    the third part is that if an officer has 3 infractions valid or not that officers database record is marked as unhirable. If any department employs this officer  that department loses the ability to purchase military surpluses and funding for such it cut.


    i know what your saying. Who is doing the investigation on the infractions? Well that’s a very good question, the police would police themselves. But there is a check in place. For every infraction that is deemed invalid. The AACP or another civil rights group would audit the investigation. If both parties agree that the infraction is invalid it is dropped from the officers record. If the civil rights group rules that the investigation to the infraction was not handled correctly, the department loses the ability to buy surplus military supplies and funding is cut indefinitely.


    those boys love their toys. Make the system around them losing that and things will change quick.  

  17. This kind of show is exactly why I  respect you and listen to you.  I  want to know more about  other people, what happens to them, and what they think about life here. I just reupped for another 6 months.

  18. Well I give you much respect for having the open mind ness and courage  to bring on a communist;) although I don’t care for communists, I don’t want them to be silenced. I listened all the way through so I know it wasn’t the ‘famous’Angela, but she could’ve been her student. I mean she definitely sounded like a globalist for shizzl.  I just want mericans to be smarter than to fall into the trap and not dumb enough to forget this country was founded on liberty, property rights, and self defense! IT DOESNT MATTER HOW THE FOUNDERS ACTED OR LEAD THEIR LIVES, THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE I KNOW OF WHERE MEN DRAFTED A DOCUMENT AND ALL SIGNED IT AGREEING THE “ALL MEN ARE EQUAL” never happened before that I know of and it will damn sure never happen again if the commies get their way.  You won’t hear any argument out of me at all about how corrupt and rigged the system is built to house brown people. There’s no doubt, but growing up a poor cracka in a mostly black area I feel my position is unique! If you want to really fix the problem the only thing needed is cameras on every cop at all times while on duty and full accountability to laws they’ve sworn to uphold. The policing neighborhoods and traffic is a bunch of bs just to feed the system in multiple ways, revenue and prison revenue. They have a lot of beds to fill:( so I totally agree with get the cops off the streets, fire half of them, pay the rest well, keep’em at the station until called  and hold their feet to the fire!!! If their camera isn’t on during a disputed situation, they must be punished to the fullest extent of the law, btw, bring back public hanging and that shizzz will dry up quick;) As far as B L M, they openly admit they want to destroy America and are openly funded by a nazi. I would have a lot more respect for them if the changes their name to a more true description like ‘Some Black Lives Matter’ you know the ones that the ultimate goal of divide and conquer accomplishes. If black communities will EVER be fixed is if they do it themselves. It just drives me nuts they continue to go vote for the same criminals that oppressed them, they continue to listen to people, mostly white, who continue to lie over and over. Total f’ing insanity!!! The good brothas need to step up, problem is their mostly scared of the bad bro’s. One thing I know for sure, I hadn’t ever met a brotha who wasn’t down for some pu$$y, especially white pu$$y, no matter the responsibility or past commitment, ANY straight homie is gonna get that thing. So inevitably many black communities run short on good fatherly figures, and the ones willing to fight usually end up dead from the dude down the road, or the cops:( I agree it’s fukd up. Anyway enough stoned rambling, good job as always, it was probably the least liked show I’ve ever had but I am always willing to listen to the other sides argument, as long as it’s a civil debate, I’m all for it;) thanks again Mr Carolwood, you’re the best!!!

  19. I'm a leftist, female, LGBT, and raised in a biracial & bilingual family. I really need more content from this side of the aisle. It's hard to swallow a lot of the bigoted "side opinions" of a lot of this old, straight, white men who come on–stuff they weren't brought on the show to talk about but manage to shoehorn in.

    Thank you, Greg, and please bring more women and voices of color to this arena. It is not easy to sift through all the baked-in white supremacy & homophobia some of these guys promote to find the nuggets of truth…most of my friends won't even listen to your show with me because of it.

    1. I find you have to hear both side of any argument, and  the truth is usually somewhere between the opposite opinions. People become to attached to one side, and it keeps them from being able to understand the other. In our political spectrum, its become a team sport of which side can win. For a real win, both side need to consider their own strengths and weaknesses, and see what the other side has to offer. 

      I suppose the bulk of Greg's guest have been white males, like himself. But he does bring women and people of color in the mix. Ras Ben's last episode was amazing! While getting people who look different on the outside is important, I think variety of thought is much more important. I believe the Left is creating a paradigm with a lot of variety on the surface, but no variety of thought allowed. I understand that might not make sense, but from an outsider, this is basically what I hear from the left. If you disagree about any of these topics, here's your label: 'Anti-Vacer', 'Anti-Science', 'Racist', 'Science Denier', or 'Fox News Watcher'. I'm told as a straight white male that my opinions are invalid on subjects like race or abortion. For a group of inclusion, boy do i feel excluded. Even the LGBT flag went from rainbow to include black and brown… guess everyone but the straight whites? 

      Not trying to pick on you, just not sure if you have heard this kinda perspective. I want to love everybody, regardless of race, beliefs, gender (idenity or preference). But nothing makes me feel more excluded than the leftist groups that basically claim the same. 

      I know I'm rambling on here, sorry. Last point. Anyone who is racist, in reality, has a problem with themselves. They project it out onto someone or some other group, as the source of their frustration. But if they could fix what's inside, they'd discover what race someone else is hurts them in no way, shape, or form. Its the beliefs that are toxic. Thanks for sharing, hope this was insightful.

  20. The negative comments you are getting looks more like a Twitter feed than what the normal TLC crowd presents. Its not the guest, how she presents herself or what she had to say. A large portion of the audience was confronted with a topic which triggers them. It's not like Angela Davis was saying the Queen is a reptilian or that the moon was hauled into place by aliens. Those topics don't trigger the TLC crowd.

    I don't live in 'merika so have no skin in the game but I found Professor Davis to be clear and fair. I disagree with many of your guests, Greg, but I don't lose a nut over it. It seems outrage is fine disagreeing with her on "this particular topic", that is the unfair treatment of black people in America. Hello!?! Is this not obvious. Did she get her facts wrong? If so, talk about that rather spew vitriol about the person. Great work as always, Greg. It is appreciated.


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