J.M. DeBord | Dream Interpretation, Symbolism & The Subconscious

Show Notes


Join The Higherside Chats podcast as host Greg Carlwood talks dream interpretations, Carl Jung, and more with guest, J.M. DeBord.

While many of us spend our time contemplating our reality, and dissecting possible scenarios to help us explain and understand this mysterious experience of life, we may be overlooking a critical piece to comprehending the consciousness puzzle: the Dreamtime.
Not only are sleep and dreaming crucial components required for survival that consume approximately one third of our overall lifespan, but deciphering their symbolism and significance can help us to better understand our unacknowledged subconscious desires.
And fortunately, today’s guest, J.M. Debord is not only the leading dream interpreter, learned man, and author of books such as “Dreams 1-2-3” and “The Dream Interpretation Dictionary”, but he can also be found on the forums of Reddit as moderator extraordinaire at r/DreamInterpretation.
3:10 J.M. begins by divesting what sparked his interest in dream interpretation, the use of dreams in understanding the bigger picture and their symbolic language. His fascination of the mind, both conscious and subconscious, the work of Carl Jung, and his exploration of psychiatry, helped lay the base for DeBord’s continuing education and exploration of dreams and his publication of books such as “Dreams 1-2-3” and “The Dream Interpretation Dictionary”. He also discusses the reasons we dream ranging from biological and physical, to emotional and spiritual.
13:00 With very few things connecting all of humanity, dreaming and death are universally experienced by everyone throughout human history. J.M. discusses insights gleaned from moderating Reddit, the role and purpose of our dreams, and how we can use our dreams to more deeply connect to our unconscious desires. DeBord also breaks down the sleep and REM cycle, the importance of recurring dreams and how we use dreaming to process our memory.
25:00 Greg and J.M. discuss the various ways we can improve our reception of this symbolic form of communication with our subconscious, otherwise known as dreaming. DeBord familiarizes listeners with the dream template, the processes used to unpack the subconscious mind, and ways symbolism can be successfully applied in dream interpretation.
32:42 DeBord dives deeper into the symbolism interpretation by expanding on some of the more popular themes, conventional scenes and symbols in dreams. He covers the common motifs including: vehicles, homes, school, zombies, ex-love interests, aliens abductions and UFOs.
47:20 Continuing with their conversation regarding alien abductions in dreams, Greg and J.M. discuss one of the more extreme examples covered by DeBord, the infamous “fisting” dream.
Become a Plus Member at to hear a second hour of all THC episodes. This week’s included:

– dreams and DMT

– shared dreams, at different times

– cases of prophetic dreams, and picking winning lottery numbers in the dream state

– getting insight into past lives in your dreams

– falling in love in dreams with people that we never meet in waking life, and cases where we do

– increasing dream retention

A few valuable resources from the interview:
Reddit- r/DreamInterpretation:
Want more J.M. DeBord?
Check out his website “J.M. DeBord Dream Interpretation”:
Find him on Reddit as a moderator of r/DreamInterpretation:
Under userrname RadOwl:
Or, grab one of his books, including “Dream 1-2-3” and “The Dream Interpretation Dictionary” for a deeper look into the symbolism used in dreams and their function of bringing the subconscious mind forward:
Want to hear more THC?
Become a plus member and gain access to the additional hour as well as the THC forums at:
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16 Responses

  1. Hahahah!

    I dreamed I was trying to tell someone “that’s not how time works” but couldn’t talk- lost my voice right?-

    About the same dream different times.

    The dream doesn’t have to be “somewhere else”.

    But now listening awake I don’t remember what was so important.

    Maybe it has something to do with flat earth…


  2. Hope the wedding was chill, and am glad to see a new show. It popped up on my YouTube feed, so I listened to the intro. I’m downloading it now, but I got the feeling of a classic. The only thing I got against weed is, if I smoke before bed (most nights), I don’t remember my dreams. They are important. Iv had many problems I couldn’t solve, sometimes thinking about it for a week. But I will have a dream that, in it, I solve the problem. Iv dealt with sleep paralysis, where instead of the gremlin on the chest, it looks like slash from guns and roses standing over me. On 50% occasion or more I lucid dream. Sorry for the rant, I haven’t heard the show, save the intro, but yeah I’m excited for this topic. I was just guessing at the shows contents

  3. Hoo boy, I’ve sure had some experiences myself. One quick interesting one is when I was roughly 15 I had a dream that I was inside a forest that didn’t look like but felt like a summer camp I went to every year. There was a sasquatch running around in the forest and I was chasing after it. Almost exactly a year later when I was at said camp there was a scavenger hunt and at the final location one of the counselors was dressed up in a gorilla suit and came running out of a barn at your group. Was really fucky.

    vvv TLDR; vvv I got possessed on my first shroom trip. My headspace is susceptible but I’m in the drivers seat now.

    I’m inclined to believe in his thoughts that it isn’t all in your head when dreaming. I only dream in a third person like state almost over the shoulder. The way I dream seems to very well align with how I think, as I tend to feel like I’m talking to myself when I think instead of just having thoughts, it’s probably not that weird but I can tell not everybody does it I guess. This kind of gives me a double edged sword of being able to analyze myself and my reactions to things but also leaves me feeling a bit disconnected, like my soul isn’t very well attached but more of a blown open kind of way and not a “accidentally astral project” way. I actually struggle with astral projection as the few times I’ve done it there’s almost no visuals but a haze of experience that forms its own visuals in my perception of what I just did. This mindset of mine gets crazy when it comes to psychedelic use. I had taken LSD about 3 times and two out of three of those times weren’t exactly bad trips but very scary in an acceptable way. My first mushroom trip after the LSD was on a whole new level, very real as opposed to the LSD which felt very self contained but almost “separate dimension brushing”. I won’t go into too much detail with those but it was some hardcore in body but my head was out of body experience type stuff that very much felt parallel to how I dream. Either way, I took 3 grams of shrooms after having done an hour long meditation which made me feel very excited and tuned in. After about 30 minutes I went on a walk with some new shoes and I should mention they cut the shit out of my ankles, I don’t know if this was the gateway but you’ll see what I mean in a bit. So I get back to my house and sit on the front porch and a large tree frog hops into the chair adjacent to me. It’s night and the frog’s very, well, trippy but I know it’s a real frog, at least in form. I don’t exactly talk to it but as some things come and go in my mind it reacts. Whenever I would acknowledge it it would react or leap onto a piling and back slowly getting closer, it felt very much like something tiny but interested in mingling with another thing out here with an altered consciousness. It finally got close enough to be exactly opposite from me and we both kinda sat there in peace. At this point it’s been roughly an hour and a half and I’m ready to go inside but as that thought enters my mind I get a really hard “shift” like something just happened but I couldn’t tell, a wave on anxiety if you will. The frog books it out into the lawn like it was startled, but I never physically moved in that time so it didn’t seem like I startled it myself. A lot of this stuff just felt right, but also felt very dreamlike and metaphorical but was literally happening so who knows. Having tripped before I just reassured myself my mind was open and I simply just need to reel it in, don’t get freaked out. I went inside and felt great for the next hour and a half, listened to music and drew and figured I was doing this thing just fine, but as time went on I started to feel very uncomfortable, a creeping dread. I started to question my sanity, and like this came out of nowhere. But I felt convinced all of a sudden that I might have killed everyone in the house and that I was just sitting here pretending it was ok. It got very schrodinger’s cat, and like I had the power to decide which route I went down. Now I’m not a violent guy and I get upset when people are in discomfort at all but I wasn’t about to go waking people up (it was like 4 am) and cause a ruckus so I decided to just wash my face and calm down. Upon entering my bathroom I got stronger thoughts of self consuming hate but as I said before I tend to think outside of my self, so I had no desire to act on or do anything to inflict self harm but the thoughts were still happening. I then notice in the bathtub one of those large basement spiders, the kind with the long spindly legs that are segmented like 5 times. It all sort of clicked. I felt pretty terrified examining it as the sensations of unknowing and fear were literally pulsing through my waking mind; however, the spider couldn’t seem to get out of the bathtub. It would crawl up to the edge but fall back down over and over as well as extend really flat then suddenly ball up, very odd. But it felt like a vessel, like this thing was a physical knock knock from something. I should mention there’s never been a bug in the house in my entire two years of living there, so coincidence or satan I dunno. I went back to my room, I didn’t want to kill the spider as I felt the spider itself wasn’t the problem, just a symbol. As the trip progressed I got more and more uncomfortable and self doubting but I started to work to say no, but every time I would deny whatever this was I would get real scared again. It wasn’t a crippling scared but more of an innate scared, like my psyche just didn’t like being in this situation. It felt very hollywood exorcist style, like it wasn’t as bad as it seems but looked intimidating and made you think it was stronger that it really is. Then the spider comes into mind. Like it was the perfect metaphor for this. These thoughts are creepy but they can’t get out of the bathtub, no matter how long reaching the legs are. So I finally bucked up and thought it’s time to do this, and just kept denying myself from going into a dark hole. When I’d close my eyes I’d see thousands of spiraling bug legs and centipedes. Finally I felt something deep inside my physical heart untwist and recede. Now I closed my eyes it was a clean and pure display of geometry and light and I felt so good and clean. I can’t say if this was backlash from the previous trips. They weren’t bad but there was some weird baggage I hadn’t been able to fully digest. Perhaps I just finally accepted that it was OK to do this and the shrooms allowed me to manifest some dark stuff and kill it myself or if this was totally an archon hijacking my ride. Probably the craziest sensations I’ve ever experienced.

    I also let the spider outside 🙂

    1. That’s crazy stuff. Good post. On a side note, next shroom trip, buy a 3×5 white poster board and neon or glow in the dark highlighters. Shroom out and start drawing. You will have some crazy art the next day

  4. Enjoyed this show. It was a nice change and more educational than expected. Good call. I’ve had a very active dream life my entire, I even learned to drive a car in my dreams as a teenager, to the point of learning how to handle sticky driving situations. Most of my early life was filled with prophetic dreams. I’ve had shared dreams or astral travel experiences with other people who also remember the experience. I’ve noticed over the years are also certain places in the dream-scape that link up like portals to other places. I would love to know if other folks outside myself and my son who would recognize or know of these places that are linked to 3D Earth.

  5. I had a very long dream about two weeks ago. When I smoke before bed I don’t remember my dreams. Every now and then I will have a very strong dream I will remember regardless. I dreamed I was watching a YouTube video, then it went from watching a screen, to being the active person in the video. I was standing in a door of a c17 style aircraft ready to parachute out. I seen a white church in the middle of an overgrown jungle, and bailed out. I sensed fear as I began looking around the outside. It was old and dilapidated, obviously in ruins. A large brown bear came out and began chasing me. A ran until I came to a dance and jumped it. The bear couldn’t go over the fence, so he ran around it, so I’d just jump back over. We did this a few times until I noticed a white car along a road
    I ran, jumped in the car and sat there. The bear ran to the passenger side so I rolled the window down. He stuck his head on and we stared at each other. It was almost as if we had telecommunication. I opened the door and he got in. I drove the car and went to my mother’s house. There was a man there I recognized, and I was ready to sic the bear on him, but he was kind and polite, so I didn’t make my bear attack him. At that point it was almost as if the bear would do my bidding, if I had the thought in my heart.

    The man from the dream is a guy I know who is no good and a thief. He took financial advantage of my widowed mother just recently, and about a month ago, is trying to sue her now on bogus chargers that will be dismissed in court. Dreams are powerful.

  6. What a nice man! And he has a wonderful way with words (so thoughtful of others’ feelings)!! I truly hope all his dreams come true.
    ??❤️?? Happy Marriage Mr. and Mrs. Greg!!! May all your dreams come true for 5 decades and more to come! As a bride of 36 years, I must tell you that nothing beats traveling Life’s difficult highway with the same beloved for all your daze to follow. I’m so happy for you. Thank you for the years of Wisdom and Truth that you’ve given me! I’ll be treading this Journey with you in my pocket til the End. You are well loved, Mr. & Mrs. Greg!???????❤️?

  7. This was by far my favorite episode. I have always felt that my dreams spoke directly to me. The earliest experience I remember was when I was 13 years old. I was in the 8th grade ( I am 29 now). One night, I dreamt that I was at school. Changing in the locker room for gym class. I leave out of the locker room to join all of the other kids on the pavement where we sit to take role. I sat in gum…

    Ok so dream over…in real life…the next day in school, the exact same thing that I dreamt happened to me. Exactly How I Dreamt.Once I realized what had happened, after sitting in the gum, I immediately told my friends. It was unbelievable. I have had more precognitive type dreams since then. That one just stood out to me the most because it was my first and just so random…sitting in gum? lol why?

  8. I do not resonate with this. Even Carl Jung would turn in his grave if he knew his name was associated with a dream “dictionary”. Dream symbolism is personal and can only be known by the dreamer. Everybody already “knows” what their dreams mean, and after learning about archetypes, dreaming is a personal language in which the dreamer is born fluent. This cataloging daily events stuff just kinda trivializes the entire process.

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